Tuesday, October 07, 2014

THE ABOMINABLES (no relation to the book!)

I didn't exactly fall down an internet rabbit hole this time, rather I wandered gingerly into one to take a look while casting around for a subject to blog about. An article by Manly Hall in my volume of "Best of the Illustrated National Astrological Journal 1933-35" about Genghis Khan and his astrology set me hopping down the burrow.

From detailed sources the author determined, or rather estimated, the birth date of Genghis Khan "a storm that shook the world", as 16 September in A.D. 1186. Cross-checking with Astrodienst, I noted that his birth date there is stated as :
14 September 1186 Jul.Cal. (21 Sep 1186 greg.) at 23:50 (= 11:50 PM )
Place Gobi Desert, Mongolia, 51n42, 115e50

Do take a look - it's a very unusual chart!

Astrodienst's source notes say Manly Hall gave 14 September in the NAJ 1933 - but in my copy he gave 16 September. That's rather odd! Anyway, concentration was on the Libra/Virgo cusp, either way.

Reading around, though, I found some different estimated birth dates for GK - different months and even even different years proposed. So, it was looking as though studying a birth chart for him would be a lost cause.

 Russian sculptor Dashi Namdakov's statue of Genghis Khan, Marble Arch, London, UK.

Wandering further down the burrow I found a brief set of exchanges on a message board from 2011. , headed: Leaders of Genocides in the 21st century.
One person responding to the original poster (original post is at the bottom of that page) mentioned Genghis Khan and his supposed date of birth as 23 September - different again. It was the original poster's list that sparked my interest though.

This list entails some of the worst genocides of the 21st century, some of which deaths amounted in the 78 millions (Mao Ze-Dong), 23 millions (Stalin), 12 millions (Hitler), to 800,000 (Jean Kambanda) of the Rwanda genocide. All are a cause of conflicts such as: religious, political, or cultural beliefs. These genocides are an estimated of number of people killed by the orders of the leader, but however, do not reflect the indirect number of gross deaths from such: hunger, civilians.

Let's see what signs these leaders were... (I only listed genocides # of >100,000 body count)

Mao Ze-Dong: Dec. 26 (CAPRICORN)
Josef Stalin: Dec. 21 (SAGITTARIUS)
Adolf Hitler: Apr. 20 (ARIES)
Leopold II of Belgium: Apr. 9 (ARIES)
Hideki Tojo: Dec. 30 (CAPRICORN)
Ismail Enver: Nov. 22 (SAGITTARIUS)
Pol Pot: May 19 (TAURUS)
Kim Il Sung: April 15 (ARIES)
Menghistu: May 21 (GEMINI)
Yakubu Gowon: Oct. 19 (LIBRA)
Leonid Brezhnev: Dec. 19 (SAGITTARIUS)
Jean Kambanda: Oct. 19 (LIBRA)
Suharto: Jun. 8 (GEMINI)
Saddam Hussein: Apr. 28 (TAURUS)
Tito: May 7 (TAURUS)
Fumimaro Konoe: Oct. 12 (LIBRA)
Jonas Savimbi: Aug. 3 (LEO)
Idi Amin: Jan. 1 (CAPRICORN)
Yahya Khan: Feb. 4 (AQUARIUS)
Benito Mussolini: Jul. 29 (LEO)
Mobutu Sese Seko: Oct. 14 (LIBRA)
Charles Taylor: Jan. 28 (AQUARIUS)
Foday Sankoh: Oct. 17 (LIBRA)
Slobodan Milosevic: Aug. 20 (LEO)
Jean-Bedel Bokassa: Feb. 22 (PISCES)

It could be interesting to take a closer look at some of these characters' natal charts, adding a very brief run down on their history, linking to details at Wiki or elsewhere - maybe at the rate of one a week - to discover whether any common denominators emerge. I'm sure something similar must have been done before, by someone, somewhere, but no matter. I might kick-of with the guy at the top of the list later this week.

To balance that masculine majority, if I'm not too sickened I'll make a start on these women, who didn't pracice genocide, but were horrendously cruel.


mike said...

Interesting, but I would suppose the natal charts of these individuals would display possible strong leadership potential, rather than murderous qualities (whatever the astrology for that would be!). The Mexican cartels are deserving of your list, too, with 60,000 killed from 2006 to 2012 [ http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/02/world/americas/mexico-drug-war-fast-facts/index.html ].

It often appears that the astrology of the era is more telling than the particular individuals' natal charts. I've noticed that individuals leading a murderous regime or are themselves mass-murderers usually have tripping-points where significant transits to their chart start a confluence of destruction. Likewise, the same transits in a mentally stable individual can bring changes leading to great things.

I long ago realized that we are ALL crazy and it's only a matter of how much and when. It only takes a strong transit of one or more planets to one's natal chart to bring forth the worst or best. Forbid, if that person is in a position of influence and the transits are interpreted in a negative fashion. However, that individual in a strong position of influence will feed into the overall astrological pattern of that era for good or ill. I'm reminded of that essay (can't remember now the source reference) that stated the future pulls the past and present toward it, as if the future is constantly forming the past and present.

Twilight said...

mike ~ Mexican cartels aren't really in the same league though - and more than one individual have positions of leadership.

I do agree with your points, natal charts are unlikely to have any startlingly similar factors which could be interpreted as "liable to commit genocide". Even so, I'm curious to have a look at a few from that list.

Genocide hasn't been as uncommon as we'd like to hope through the centuries, but it's such an unspeakably monstrous event, that those directing it could have "markers". I agree that the astrological atmosphere of the times they live in, as adults, will have to be factored in too.

I've made a start on Mao to post on Thursday. See what you think, then.

Sonny G said...

Regardless of sign, chart, gender or time period- Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

I've also thought about how a chart tells Possibilities and how one chooses to give the power in their chart or through a transit that could be used for Good or Evil.
Its always about the choices we make when using the gifts we have.
The power those folks weilded could have had such amazing results if only they'd been used for good.

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ Yes, all true. Nevertheless,
"something" has to incline a person towards the choices they make. I think that is the elusive "something"
that could lurk around individual astrology patterns. Maybe, maybe not.
It'll likely be different for each genocidal maniac, if there at all.

mike (again) said...

I'm not trying to discredit your effort before you begin (you've presented many of the devious previously). One of the more fascinating points of your blog and effort is that you present individuals known to have influenced a particular topic, much like your Arty-Farty Fridays. It's always of interest to me to view the astrology of those individuals and attempt to understand how those influences combined with their material history and created an individual known to the collective.

Proper chronology, sequence, or synchronicity is often required for an individual to become famous or infamous. Something was required to have happened coincidentally or prior.

Twilight said...

mike ~ Oh, I know you weren't. :-)
I appreciate that what would really be needed for an exercise like this is a lot of research, lists of exact dates and times, lots of detail of the way things came about. Dang - a whole book could be written about how and why Mao Dezong became a genocidal maniac - and even then not really get to the heart of it. I have neither the skills, experience nor inclination to go that far.

I just have a feeling that something in the natal chart has to be present for this most extreme of extreme personality traits to emerge, especially at times when transits make triggers. I could be wrong.

I shall look at maybe just three to begin with, and if it seems like a lost cause, well that'll be that.

LB said...

Twilight ~ I'm sure you know me well enough by now to know Sonny G's comment echoes my own thoughts on the subject of charts and free will.

Which isn't to say I don't share your interest.:) Astrology (especially my own!) always amazes me. It can be a great tool to help us understand ourselves and our relationships and (hopefully) make wiser choices.

Though hard work, for some of us astrology can be less expensive and far more "enlightening" and effective than traditional therapy.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Yes, indeed! :-)
Well, I shall take a run at this, and if it's not very revealing, in the way I hope it might be, there's nothing lost. It's all good practice - and it stops me from getting into mischief.

LB said...

Twilight ~ Understanding my nature (and my natural triggers) has kept me from getting into mischief many a time!

Twilight said...

LB ~ LOL! Same for me - sometimes, not always. Sometimes it's more like this, from The Bard:

“Now let it work. Mischief, thou art afoot. Take thou what course thou wilt.”
― William Shakespeare,
Julius Caesar

jpbenney said...

Interesting list – in that there is only one water and six mutable signs among the 25 people listed. There are ten cardinal, nine fixed, eight fire, seven earth and nine air. The figures are either coincidence, really funny, or evidence for astrology!

No Cancer, Scorpio or Virgo is present – though orthodox Catholics would no doubt wish Virgo Margaret Sanger (whose natal chart noticeably resembles Madonna’s) were on this list. Some like George Grant (Killer Angel) would place Sanger second to Mao, although Grant is so ranty it is hard to take him seriously.

That lack of water – often discussed with Hitler – is a primary factor in people who commit genocides can be doubted by cases like:

– Leopold II, who had Mercury, Venus and Mars in water
– İsmail Enver, who likewise had Mercury, Venus and Mars in water signs
– Pol Pot, who had Venus, Saturn, Uranus and Pluto in water
– Yakubu Gowon, who had Moon in Pisces, Mercury and Jupiter in Scorpio
– Leonid Brezhnev, who had Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn in water
– Suharto, who had Moon and Mercury in Cancer
– Jonas Savimbi, who had Mercury, Venus and Mars in Cancer
– Yahya Khan had Moon and Saturn in Cancer
– Benito Mussolini had Ascendant in Scorpio
– Foday Sankoh had Moon in Pisces
– Mobutu Sese Seko had Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn in Cancer

In fact, apart from Hitler only Tojo and Milosevic were absolutely void of water, and two other dictatorss with Cancer Moons in Enver Hoxha (born 16 October 1908) and Augusto Pinochet (distinctly watery chart, born 25 November 1915) further add to this result.

Twilight said...

jpbenney ~ Hi there! Many thanks for these additional interesting pointers!

I don't know whether you've looked at the other posts in the "abominable" series - I attempted to go into a wee bit more detail on a few (4 I think) of the named "charmers" in the above list. The posts can be accessed easily via the Label Cloud (sidebar) by clicking on "abominables".

jpbenney said...

I haven't looked that much at the other posts, but what I did see is interesting.

Hoxha, given he ruled a country of only three million people, may count as being equally brutal as people who murdered many more than he did (and I have never read what the death toll from the Sigurimi and other executions actually was). Even without a birth time and such being exceedingly improbable, Hoxha's chart does resemble Mobutu's, which is perhaps the classic case even untimed of a huge concentration in cardinal signs.

Twilight said...

jpbenney ~ Some Cardinal emphasis isn't surprising, I guess, in the chart of any kind of leader. Some leaders are, or become, corrupt, all are egotistical, a few are benign, some are genocidal maniacs. Mobutu's is an exceptionally clear chart indicating Cardinal leadership. But, presented with Mobutu's chart, and without knowing anything about its owner - what would offer a hint indicating the direction and flavour of his leadership? Pluto/Jupiter/Mars in Cancer?