Maximum Age Limit for Voting ?

A question posed at Quora: Should there be a ‘Maximum Age Limit’ for voting in elections?





Oh dear! A quote: “Discrimination on the basis of age is as unacceptable as discrimination on the basis of any other aspect of ourselves that we cannot change.”
― Ashton Applewhite, This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism.

Elections, in the UK, USA and in most other countries are an opportunity to vote for representatives in government (local and national) for a limited period - 4 years, 5, 6 and with the opportunity, in future elections, to extend, within limits, those periods. Older voters most certainly have a stake in how their city, town, county, state or country will be governed during the next few years. To argue otherwise has no basis in fact.


A few snips from Quora answers:

At what point do you feel a Senior Citizen’s opinion has become so worthless that his/her Constitutional right should be revoked? As I see it: understanding, knowledge, experience, preferences, and opinions do not come with a shelf life like a carton of milk. (from Al Nolf's answer)


But just to be devil’s advocate, the best reason to limit the voting right of the very aged (say 85+) is that they are not going to have to live with the long-term consequences of their vote and so their votes should not have as much sway. My own parents actively decided not to vote once they got to be in their mid-late 80’s for just this reason. They felt the world belonged to the younger folks and they should be the ones to decide how it went forward.
(From Ellen Garbarino's answer.)


Yes, there should be a maximum age limit for voting. It’s better known as death. Up to that point — but hopefully not beyond — we need the input from people who have actually been around the block a few times.
(From Susan C Weber's answer)

Absolutely not. Only someone young and inexperienced who has not experienced the process of aging, who has not looked back on their lives with regret in regards to the assumptions they were so sure about would propose such a ridiculous idea. (Ridge Green's answer)


Mark Hartman wrote (with the added disclaimer "/sarcasm"):
I am all in favor of imposing a maximum age limit, and raising the minimum age limit.
No person below the age of 30 should be permitted to vote.
No person above the age of 150 should be permitted to vote.



And Al Eisenmenger wrote:
If it were not for the Senior Citizens that fought for your right to vote you wouldn’t have a Country to vote in….

"Altering one's aspect to the Sun"

Father Time, aka Chronos, aka Saturn, depicted left by a 16th century printer:

Printer's device of Simon de Colines (d. 1546). Latin motto TEMPUS (Time) HANC ACIEM SOLA RETUNDIT VIRTUS is translated "virtue alone withstands this blade". Note the forelock on Time--so that one may seize Time by the forelock.
(See HERE)

Father Time pursues us all, virtuous or villainous. We stagger towards the start of another calendar year, some of us still mildly punch-drunk from 2014's vagaries, some contemplating, Saturnine fashion, on the seniority of our years.

2014 began well enough for me, but around its halfway mark, due to a fungal infection of my scalp I was forced to give up my 8-weekly visit to the hairdresser for a colour job. So now, as nature - and Father Time - intended, I have snow on the roof. "Ah yes", I think, as I look in the mirror now - "I remember you!"

2014 had a parting gift for me in its 4th quarter, a gift for the other end of my physical body: a dicky left foot. That alone wouldn't have fazed me too much, been there, done that, but a cocktail of anti-biotics and their side-effects catapulted me into a downward spiral for a couple of weeks, to a place I've never been before, and to which I never wish to return.

Happily, husband has weathered 2014 well, all things considered, and really my own problems have been pretty minor as compared to some suffered by others. Planetary placements in my natal chart mean that astrologers would probably put down my own minor upsets to flak from 2014's Cardinal Grand Cross, and associated aspects. (I have natal Saturn at 13 Aries, and natal ascendant degree in mid-Cancer).

I don't believe in aging. I believe in forever altering one's aspect to the sun.
― Virginia Woolf

Time, age and astrology are, naturally, closely linked. We live our lives against the "wallpaper" of planetary cycles: Jupiter's of 12 years, Saturn's of 29, and that of Uranus, nearest of all to current average life expectancy, 84 years. I'm well along that cycle of cycles, proof is below. Photos span the years from 1939 to Christmas Eve, 2014, covering Transits of Uranus in Taurus to Uranus in Aries - dawn to Twilight!

The great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been. ~Madeleine L'Engle

Last lines of Longfellow's poem Morituri Salutamus offer a bright thought:

For age is opportunity no less
Than youth itself, though in another dress,
And as the evening twilight fades away
The sky is filled with stars, invisible by day.

I do love that last line! It reminds me of a quote from 2001 a Space Odyssey: "...it goes on forever — and — oh my God! — it's full of stars!"

So...anyone else have thoughts on their personal experiences and the vagaries of 2014?

Not Old Yet!

From an article by Janet Allon at Salon this week, referring to another article at SWNS.com

"Old age begins much later than you might expect
A new study proves the adage that age is just a number. Plus! Twenty-five signs you're getting old":

Here, according to SWNS.com, an independent newswire in Great Britain are the dreaded signs of ‘old age:’ Chances are, no matter what your age, you’ll recognize yourself in a few of these. Like, who isn’t forgetful from time to time? And plenty of people of all ages choose clothing for comfort rather than style. So, take it with a large grain of salt.

I did, and provided my own responses:

1. You fall asleep watching TV or reading the paper.
Don't read papers, read the internet. Fall asleep if watching crap TV programmes, so mostly watch DVDs instead and stay awake.

2. You become forgetful.
Not often, and mostly about inconsequential matters.

3. You groan when getting up from a chair or out of bed.
Maybe, sometimes, depending on the weather.

4. You say ‘back in my day’.
No I say "back when", if I'm speaking or writing about the past, so what other way is there to speak about the past?

5. You choose clothes for comfort rather than style.
Always have but try to combine both comfort and style.

6. You repeat yourself.
So do lawyers, politicians, teachers. So?

7. You have no idea what is in the music charts.
And that's a necessity in order not to get old?

8. You insist ‘things aren’t as they used to be’.
They aren't - in some ways it's a good thing (segregation, slavery, World War II).

9. You choose places to eat because they play quiet music.
I choose places where they sell what I feel like eating.

10. You have an afternoon nap.
No. I don't , not ever.

11. You don’t know the names of current celebrities.
Yes I do, but what good is that?

12. People offer you a seat on public transport.
There is no public transport where I live.

13. You prefer to stay in rather than go out drinking.
Are you kidding? But there are no pubs where I live. I can stay in drinking.

14. You have a low tolerance for teenagers.
Doesn't everyone?

15. You forget where your glasses are.
I have several, so can always find one.

16. Choosing to meet friends for lunch or dinner rather than a night out for drinks.
Kidding again aren't ya?

17. Choosing a cup of tea over an alcoholic drink.
As if! Getting silly now!

18. Wear slippers all the time.
I do not possess a single pair of slippers.

19. You watch ‘old’ TV shows like Antiques Roadshow.
So? I'm interested in fine arts and antiques, that's not a sign of old age.

20. You spend weekends or bank holidays in garden centres.
I do not have a garden. I have never, knowingly, entered a garden centre.

21. Gardening is a hobby.
I do not have a garden. Oops - repeating myself! Sign of age? The questioner is repeating too. Nevertheless I am gardenless.

22. You only listen to music from your youth.
I listen to music from the youth of countless generations, including, occasionally the current one.

23. You don’t hesitate to complain about poor customer service.
Nobody should.

24. You always take an umbrella or coat out with you, just in case.
Yes - "Be Prepared". UK's climate taught me this lesson.

25. You get a haircut to ‘suit your age’.
I cut my own hair, always have, always will. It suits ME.

Old - nope! Mature - perhaps.

For passing readers, of whatever vintage, a wish for y'all (and myself) in words of Bob Dylan,

May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
May your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young.

Thoughts on Saturn & Growing Older: A Privilege Denied to Many

While the Sun is in zodiac sign Capricorn, planet Saturn, as ruler of that sign could be said to be "in its element". Astrologer Ingrid Lind wrote that Saturn corresponds with the side of a character that is respected, or feared, rather than loved. Sense of duty, responsibility, caution, commonsense, sobriety, punctuality - all that good stuff is the reserve of Saturn. Saturn, aka Chronos, Greek god, lord of time (as against Dr. Who, Time Lord) also governs old age.

Trawling through my husband's archive (Saturn must rule archives too) at Thinks Happen the other day I came across something he wrote back in March, 2006, which seems to me to be rather Saturnian, not at all his usual style. It must have been written on a 'bad back day" - replacement for bad hair days which no longer trouble him. He titled the post The Sixth Sense: Gravity. Personally, I'd hoped that age would bring a different sixth sense - something more esoteric, other worldly: ability to read minds, the gift of prophecy, talking to the animals....or suchlike. But no, it seems something far more mundane awaits, or is already here.

The Sixth Sense: Gravity

The human body seems to compensate for its own inadequacies or attempt to balance for missing parts. Blind people seem to have an acute sense of smell. Losing an arm means the other arm will grow stronger to make up the difference. That seems natural.

Growing older includes among other things, a lessening of all of the senses it seems. The muscles soften, the organs work slower, weaker. The menu narrows so the sense of taste goes bland. Glasses and hearing aids are often required to boost those senses. The odors that used to be annoying, overwhelming or embarrassing before now seem to have become tolerable or maybe stinks have gone extinct. And dressing in the dark is no longer an option. Is that corduroy or velvet? Green, blue or black?

But in growing older one does seem to develop a sixth sense, maybe to sort of compensate for the slowing of the other five: The sense of gravity tunes up. Our awareness of gravity approaches the acute at about the same speed as the trudging, then galloping years.

Everything gets heavier. Picking up small objects such as a coffee cup cannot be done at arms length anymore. Too much strain on the elbow. So the time spent getting closer to things increases, new methods are learned to get things moved from one table to another; new rationalizations are developed to just leave things where they are. It’s the new sense of gravity teaching us new skills.

Getting the local newspaper from the driveway must be done much like young mothers are taught to pick up youngsters: squat at the knees, keep the back straight. Keeping the back straight seldom gets easier as years go but then bending the spine enough to pick something up from between your feet is impossible. So our knees and back contribute to that sixth sense of gravity by learning to cooperate in order to reach objects on the floor.

Now, since newspapers and other common objects are much heavier than a few years ago, because of that increased sense of gravity, obviously, getting back up in a standing posture is even more of a challenge. But our bodies develop ways to compensate for gravity. Pushing with one hand on a knee will aid the spine and knees in returning to the erect position. But we would never have thought of that before our sense of gravity began to develop.

All of which brought to mind a little-known song I've always loved Defying Gravity. It was theme of a TV mini-series The Executioner's Song, and sung by dear ol' Waylon Jennings, written (I think) by Jesse Winchester.

I live on a big round ball
I never do dream I may fall
And even one day if I do
Well, I'll jump off and smile back at you

I don't even know where we are
They tell you we're circling a star
Well, I'll take their word, I don't know
But I'm dizzy so it may be so

More Saturnian words on the coming of old age, this time from one of my favourite poets: Henry Wadsworth Longfellow - last two verses of Morituri Salutamus (See full poem here)

As the barometer foretells the storm
While still the skies are clear, the weather warm,
So something in us, as old age draws near,
Betrays the pressure of the atmosphere.
The nimble mercury, ere we are aware,
Descends the elastic ladder of the air;
The telltale blood in artery and vein
Sinks from its higher levels in the brain;
Whatever poet, orator, or sage
May say of it, old age is still old age.
It is the waning, not the crescent moon;
The dusk of evening, not the blaze of noon;
It is not strength, but weakness; not desire,
But its surcease; not the fierce heat of fire,
The burning and consuming element,
But that of ashes and of embers spent,
In which some living sparks we still discern,
Enough to warm, but not enough to burn.

What then? Shall we sit idly down and say
The night hath come; it is no longer day?
The night hath not yet come; we are not quite
Cut off from labor by the failing light;
Something remains for us to do or dare;
Even the oldest tree some fruit may bear;
Not Oedipus Coloneus, or Greek Ode,
Or tales of pilgrims that one morning rode
Out of the gateway of the Tabard Inn,
But other something, would we but begin;
For age is opportunity no less
Than youth itself, though in another dress,
And as the evening twilight fades away
The sky is filled with stars, invisible by day.

Gotta love that last line!

RETIREMENT AT 70 - A NASTY PERSPECTIVE FOR MANY

GUEST POST by GIAN PAUL

The reason: empty coffers, miscalculation, incompetence, idiotic life-style and a few other reasons we are not being told. It's in the air, foremost in Germany, the rest of Europe by bits and pieces, even in Greece now. As well as in the USA, Australia, even Brazil, Chile and Argentina.

Who wants it? Some mostly "old crocodile - type" politicians. The same who for years knew that demographics, an unfavorable age pyramid, were a looming threat to comfortable retirement for the many. But as the topic is not popular, for fear of being associated with it, they kept it on the back-burner for too long. And thereby augmented the problem now at hand...

And politicians, by the nature of their ambition-distorted personalities, never retire, unless not re-elected. So to them, others can/should also work until death catches up with them or close to it. But no politician will say so, of course.

And then there are other reasons to keep people working ever longer, besides the empty coffers, public and private retirement funds. Here first the pros, then the cons of all this, astrologically as well.

Ever thought that if people worked for extended years, neither golf courses nor marinas nor tennis courts would be over-crowded during week-days? These facilities would then be exclusively available to politicians and their lobbyist friends.

Commerce can only benefit from people working longer. The Japanese with an important aging population know too well that once retirement sets in, many of their citizens buy "their last car", even "their last pair of slippers". But that's the Japanese. Or is it only them?

The health industry by a broad definition represents almost 30% of GDP. The more older people there are who are still working, the better their coverage by employers. And all sorts of excesses can thereby continue.

Ecology: Now that's a controversial issue; the amount of travel done by retirees is no doubt a polution factor. If most of them were working for some additional years, the environment would benefit, not Las Vegas and similar resorts.

On the negative side of working up to age of 70, hereafter the main points ( trying not to repeat what's already known ), but looking at links with astrology:

As a general rule, quasi - statistically, the human life - span is astrologically defined by Uranus, 84 years for a full cycle. This also coincides with 3 x 28 years for Saturn and almost 7 cycles for Jupiter or almost 1/2 cycle for Neptune. Amazing mathematics!

Even clearer, as most of us get there in good health and full consciousness, is the half - cycle of a human life, age 42. This is also an often critical moment in our lives, known as "mid - life crisis". Around age 42, Uranus makes it's first and only opposition to itself on one's birth horoscope, Saturn then is squaring itself
(28+14=42) and Neptune is also almost squaring on itself. More or less, depending on retrogradation of these planets at the time of birth. But the mid - life thing is very real, from 42 to 45, give or take a few years. "Astrology" sure shows it's full effect then for many people.

Most humans are at their best career potential at this stage in their lives. For parents, children then become adults, and some "affairs" sometimes set in - including the marital complications that go with it.

Age 56, or around that, appears to be a much more interesting moment in our lives than what happens at mid-point 42-45. It's a pivot-point for many. Saturn then is completing it's second revolution, Uranus trines itself and Jupiter is conjunct (more or less) it's birth position. Astrologically a mostly harmonious passage. From the point of view of life-experience, a moment of maturity, fulfillment but also
a favorable time for looking ahead on how to "organize" one's last third of life, including of course one's retirement.

This moment coincides also with the birth of grand children. Giving to this age a kind of generational perspective. And, important for many self-employed, it's a good moment for planning on the type of succession they wish for their businesses.

But it's a phase for everybody, not just the self-employed, where some decisions regarding the future need to be taken. That is under normal conditions, when retirement would be before and at the latest at 65. If retirement becomes mandatory only later, say at 67-70, the incentive for some serious planning for the age beyond retirement becomes seriously amputated. There then is not enough interesting
time-space left worthy of any planning other then "will play some golf or similar".

Extending retirement age beyond 60-65 will deprive people of organizing for a distinct goal for retirement, ideally starting at around age 56. If condemned at that moment to think that the then routine/occupation/stress will fatally last until "the end of my life", there is trouble ahead: It's actually stealing from our freedom by not permitting to add a different chapter to one's life. More of the usual but no hope for anything creative anymore.

More in defense of the individualists then the conformists, the right to creativeness is more important than relative greater security and financial comfort at retirement. Knowing at age 56 that for another 14 years or so one's current routine will more or less continue, is oppressive. It's about similar to someone, as often happens, who, living in a huge apartment block in a big city, goes on vacation in another big concrete structure somewhere on a beach, say from New York to Miami. Where is the charm?

For some (maybe many) people, the idea of having still a window open on another chapter to one's life, after retirement, is all important. Our professional life often drags us into some routine which by far is not felt ideal, even oftentimes adverse to our health. Enough reason that such conditions not be prolonged.



In today's world, the economic "dictat" has precedence over all the rest. Some nevertheless feel that that's wrong. And from an astrological point of view there are solid reasons to believe that retirement should be at around age 56. But not for when it's too late.

Only the exceptional person will still have the physical force and drive at a late stage in life to do something meaningful and new. When still young, we tend to ignore that "time gets so-to-say geometrically shorter as we progress in age".

Question: if all the goodies we produce can not provide this type of alternative, even by accepting to reduce our standards of living to some extent, what's the point in producing the goodies in the first place? They actually are not goodies anymore, but soon turn into their contrary. Creating more and more dissatisfaction. It's a difficult re-think the industrial world would have to do. Without it, however,
it's a nasty perspective, indeed.

PS. How many Germans are secretly not thinking that the Greeks are right? And why should they sell their most charming islands to also drive a Mercedes?

Horoscopes for Elders ?

On an internet wander the other day, I happened upon a blog called "Time Goes By". Among the comments following 28 October's post, "The Essence of Elders", was one which brought up a point I'd never even considered before.

The blog post itself had addressed the issue of advertising aimed at elders (those generally labelled "seniors") in a way which is quite often not appealing to them. Ronni Bennet, the blogger, points our that

"....... advertising aimed at elders almost always feels irrelevant to me – they are trying to appeal to old people with the memes of youth. This also applies to just about every aspect of the culture in relation to elders: television, movies, clothing, technology, vacations, etc., soaked with sexual innuendo and status seeking."

Commenter "Pete" had this to say:

"I always get such a laugh out of horoscopes. All they talk about is love life. Someone who wrote horoscopes for elders could do very well!"

Hmmm. You know, after I'd thought on this for a while I decided that the best Sun sign column writers do actually write in a non-age-specific style. Jonathan Cainer at Cainer.com and Rob Brezsny at Free Will Astrology are my own two favourites. I don't ever recall feeling alienated by their writings, as one of their readers who passed her first flush of youth when they, probably, were still in diapers.

The really bad Sun sign columns, such as appear in our local newspaper, syndicated stuff which the paper probably buys for a few dollars a week, are dreadful and ought to be outlawed. It could be such columns to which "Pete" referred, or perhaps he had been borrowing some women's magazines, or reading 'em in the dentist's waiting room. These do tend to carry content slanted for younger women, who make up their readership.

I've given the subject some more thought, and even chatted to my husband about it, wondering whether I could possibly stretch myself and write an Elder Horoscope as part of this blog. Unfortunately our conversation descended into some rather dark humour and giggling when considering the type of content I might include. I shall say no more! You know, I reckon we don't take our elder status seriously enough for me to to be of any real use in this context. Most of the time we're not even aware that we are indeed elders; if others find that a problem - then it's their problem.

We did go on to wonder at the amazing talent of daily and weekly Sun sign writers though - how they can come up with so much material day in, day out, week in, week out. It's a special and rare talent. I could probably write one day's worth of content, then I'd be done!

However, should a stray astrologer pass by here, read this post, and fancy the idea of writing an Elder Horoscope column, please leave your URL and I'll pass it on to "Pete" and others.

I'm going to think longer on this topic myself, perhaps I'm missing something!

Blogging along the cycles of time

Time, age and astrology are closely linked , of course. We live our lives against the "wallpaper" of planetary cycles - Jupiter's of 12 years, Saturn's of 29, and that of Uranus, nearest of all to current average life expectancy, 84 years. As one who is well along the cycle of cycles, I've often wondered whether many others in my age group have stumbled into blogworld.

I recently found a blog called "Don to Earth" written by a gentleman who is aged 93. It's a really good read, I recommend it. I was pleased to find, via links on Don's blog, that there are more bloggers from the older generations than I had envisioned. "The Ageless Project" (button on right) lists some of the older, as well as many younger, personal blog owners .

While wandering among some of the elder bloggers' sites I was particularly impressed by headers on two of them. The blog owners had constructed banner type headers showing small photographs of themselves from childhood to maturity. It's a nice idea. I've tried, with the help of He Who Knows, to cobble together something along similar lines to display narcissistically below.

From left to right, top to bottom, dates of the smaller photos are: 1939, 1943, 1948, 1953, 1957, 1970, 1980, 1998, 2004. The bigger pic, right, was taken Christmas Day 2006, the photo in my profile at Thanksgiving 2006. So it's Uranus in Taurus to Uranus in Pisces, and dawn to Twilight - in one fell swoop!



Groucho Marx said, "Age is not a particularly interesting subject. Anyone can get old. All you have to do is live long enough." He was right, but I do find it interesting to see how people develop. I found a fascinating site called "The Arrow of Time". On a certain date each year, from 1976 to 2006, this family made a point of taking and saving a photograph of each of them. The record is there to see. It's a great idea, and interesting to see how each has changed over the period of 30 years.

"Spring passes and one remembers one's innocence
Summer passes and one remembers one's exuberance
Autumn passes and one remembers one's reverence
Winter passes and one remembers one's perseverance."
(Yoko Ono, Season of Glass)