Tuesday, June 17, 2014

Re Violet Jessop, "Miss Unsinkable"

Following mention in a comment under my previous post, out of curiosity I've brought up a natal chart for:
Violet Constance Jessop, who was an ocean liner stewardess and nurse who achieved fame by surviving the disastrous sinkings of both the RMS Titanic and the HMHS Britannic in 1912 and 1916 respectively.

Born: October 2, 1887, Bahía Blanca, Argentina....set for 12 noon as her time of birth isn't known.

To peruse:

Jupiter semi-sextile Sun! More?


Anonymous said...

jupiter in scorpio
luck in deep water

mike said...

"Shipwreck Violet" was on two ships that sank and another that collided with a second ship...what are the odds?? She was probably forced into an early retirement by the shipping industry.

I recently refreshed myself with Carl Payne Tobey's planetary nodes:

Violet was born on a full Moon, with Sun conjunct Uranus...square the nodes of Jupiter. Her natal Mercury is square the nodes of Saturn. Natal Jupiter square the nodes of Neptune. Her lunar nodes square the nodes of Mercury.

The Titanic sinking on April 14, 1912, transiting Sun, north node, and Mercury retrograde were square the nodes of Saturn, opposing Violet's Mercury,which is also squaring nodes of Saturn. Transiting Neptune was conjunct the nodes of Saturn.

The Britannic sinking on November 21, 1916, the transiting Sun and Mercury were opposing her natal Neptune. Transiting south node was conjunct node of Saturn, while transiting moon's nodes, Jupiter, and Venus-Moon conjunct formed a T-square, with Venus-Moon conjunct her natal Mercury.

She seems to have a Mercury influence with each incident and the nodes of Mercury were square (grand cross) her lunar nodes. Her natal Mercury is square the nodes of Saturn. Does this float or is this just another layer of confusion? LOL.

Twilight said...

Anonymous ~ Yes - that IS a good fit isn't it!

Twilight said...

mike ~ The odds must be astronomical (or astrological?)

Sun conjunct Uranus was always going to manifest in some extraordinary fashion.

I've read about planetary nodes but it didn't seem to stick for me - but that doesn't mean much! :-) If there are relevant links then it's something to keep in mind for further investigation I guess - but it does add another layer, and also lays astrology open to my favourite complaint (making anything mean anything....but maybe, in the end, anything does mean anything). Ahem!

We ought to be able to see something Neptune-connected too, ships, oceans etc.....Neptune in Taurus is opposite (though not tightly) Jupiter in Scorpio, so kind of balancing the luck of Jupiter in deep water with Neptune's possible discomfort in a Fixed Earth sign?

mike (again) said...

Tobey writes that planetary aspects with the planetary nodes are more influencing than planet-planet aspects. He regards planets in conjunction or square planetary nodes as major influences.

Violet does have nodes of Mercury, Jupiter, and Neptune in prominent aspects to planets, both natal and transiting during the maritime disasters. The day of each disaster has transits involving the planetary nodes to transiting planets.

It's always easy to find correlations, but the significance of those correlations can be difficult to objectively interpret, particularly in astrology. And as we've discussed, using the basic tools of astrology doesn't cut the mustard, either. I'll play with Tobey's notion of the planetary nodes and see if I can correlate anything of significance. Michael Lutin has mentioned planetary nodes in his articles.

The occultation of Venus in 2004 and May-June, 2012 (Venus occults the Sun every 8 + 105.5 = 121.5 years) involved Venus' node at 16* Gemini-Sagittarius. Astrologers were proffering much about this occultation, so I can only assume that astrologers DO observe planetary nodes. Venus is considered to be a ruler of war in some cultures, particularly Asian and Latin America...it's interesting to note that there have been global outbreaks of war that correlates to these two recent occultations.

Twilight said...

mike (again) ~ I remembered that I did once post about some info I'd found about planetary nodes, there are 2 posts from 2007 and 2011 (the later one has a copy of the earlier one, but the early one has some interesting comments beneath it.



I shall now try to get my head around the concept once again.
:-) Maybe I'm missing something good!

LB said...

Twilight ~ I agree with you about Jupiter and Neptune being somehow significant, and also with Anonymous' observation: "jupiter in scorpio" and "luck in deep water". Adding how Jupiter in Scorpio can *potentially* be a blessing in any situation involving life and death. I know, I've got it . . . as an example, just this past Monday, my husband and I (his Sun is conjunct my Jupiter) helped rescue a wind-surfer who was struggling with strong winds that were pushing him (and his broken equipment) further away from land, out in the Bay!

When the Britannica accident happened, Violet's progressed Sun (her life!) had moved into Scorpio and was *exactly* conjunct her natal Jupiter.

Though we can't know but wish we did, *if* Violet was born a little later than noon (say between 1:00 and 2:00 p.m., which gives her an Aquarius Rising, Moon's Nodes close to the angles, Jupiter close to the MC and Sun in either the 9th or 8th), then at the time of the Britannic explosion, her progressed Moon would've been in Pisces trine her progressed Jupiter still in Scorpio.

Even without knowing her time of birth, it's likely her progressed Moon was in Pisces, ruled by Neptune - which leads me to her progressed "Karma" (3811), an asteroid I always look at when doing charts.

At the time of both accidents involving the sea, Violet's progressed asteroid Karma was *exactly* conjunct her progressed Neptune (ruling the sea) at 29 degrees Taurus (Earth), with 29 being an "Anaretic" degree. Or maybe someone already commented on that?

When the Britannic explosion occurred, transiting Karma was *exactly* conjunct Violet's natal (and progressed) Pluto, ruler of her natal Jupiter.

At the time of the Titanic's sinking, transiting Karma was *exactly* quincunx her progressed Jupiter (still in Scorpio) and may have been close to her natal Moon.

I was going back and forth, looking at charts so I hope I've kept everything straight!

In looking at Violet Jessop's natal chart, I also think with Ceres and BM Lilith being so close to her natal Moon (all in Aries), they probably played a role as well - but that would make my comment even longer, so I'll quit while I'm ahead.:)

Now I'm going to read and try to digest mike's comments and points about Mercury and the Nodes, which I'm sure are very valid.:)

mike (again) said...

Thanks, Twilight! I should have known that you were on top of this and had older posts.

Transiting Saturn is right on Mercury's south node...transiting Jupiter is right on Saturn's north node. A hotspot will form mid-July when both transiting Mars conjuncts transiting north lunar node, with both in grand cross with Saturn's nodes. Oddly, transiting Sun will be right on Saturn's north node at the same time (July 15th). We'll have to see if world events corroborate with the astrology.

LB said...

Just thought of something else. An Aquarius Rising would have made Violet's natal Uranus-Sun conjunction even more significant, and would've put Pisces on the cusp of the 2nd.

She made her living on the sea, and with Neptune in Taurus (possibly in the 4th and conjunct Asteroid Karma), it was by serving wealthy passengers aboard luxury liners. Neptune in the natal 4th fits too, since the sea became her home for much of her adult life.

Neptune in Taurus can serve to dissolve any illusions we might have about the permanence of wealth, superficial beauty, or anything material, no matter how solid or well-crafted it might be. Jupiter in Scorpio can be the antidote, since it often involves loss leading to transformation.

Twilight said...

LB ~ hmm - it's good to know that those lower layers of astro-info do indeed correlate with events, like the harmonious background music behind major performers. :-)
Many thanks for sorting all that out for us LB! Good stuff!

Twilight said...

LB (again) ~ Good point re if Aquarius were rising in Violet's chart. I wish we had her time of birth. I've just visited Amazon's page advertising her Memoirs book, opened it at first page in the hope she might have written something to give us a hint of at least the time of day/night she was born, but I didn't see anything relevant. :-(

Twilight said...

mike (again) ~ My old posts don't shed much light on the subject - there's a lot more information online now on planetary nodes - it's all very interesting.

What has struck me as important is the slowness of the nodes' movements, more akin to outer planets' speeds.
Therefore, it seems that planetary nodes would have more mundane relevance, and generational relevance than anything too personal - apart from a tie-in with someone like Violet's adventures within mundane events.

For example the planetary nodes for Jupiter through Pluto occupied approx. the same degrees for everyone born in the 20th century (I copied that from a page from
"Insights into Evolutionary Astrology" by Rose Marcus at Google Books.

Would you agree that those wider spheres are mainly where planetary nodes have significance?

mike (again) said...

LB - interesting points you've discussed...seems that there is plenty of astrology to implicate her on the high seas...LOL. You have always described yourself as a newbie to astrology, but I think you are fakin' me, girl! You are talented.

mike (again) said...

Twilight, I'm not sure what to think about the planetary nodes. My first thoughts were similar to yours, that the slowness makes it generational, or even multi-generational, as in eras. But, the planetary north nodes occupy a quadrant of the circle, the south nodes occupy the opposite quadrant. The nodes are almost certain to affect everyone's chart, particularly when the squares are considered, which fill-in the other two quadrants.

Tobey asserts that his studies indicated the planetary nodes in conjunction or square with our natal planets can induce considerable effect...no mention of trine and sextile aspects. He uses nodes of Mars as an example with violence and surgery. I am not privy to his research, so I don't know the extent of his efforts.

I've not had much time to read astrologers' essays or comments, other than what I said previously about Michael Lutin making comments about planetary nodes at various times or the hub-bub caused by Venus' occultation of the Sun, which most astrologers thought was important for each of us.

I know that the Mayan calendar depicted the movements of Venus through the ages and that they could predict occultations with the Sun...that would mean the Mayans understood Venus' nodes to some extent, whether anecdotal or mathematically.

Let me know if you discover anything juicy and I'll do the same. I'd like to find a copy of the book you presented in your post, Michael Erlewine's "Interface - Planetary Nodes"...never know, maybe it's available for free somewhere on the net.

LB said...

mike ~ LOL! No way would I fake you out! I'm more like an astrological dabbler with the occasional insight.:)

My experience with asteroids has been very interesting. Many years ago, during a respite from astrology and waaaay before I even knew about asteroids in astrology, I had a very profound dream in which I entered an antique store searching for something, which ended up to be an amulet (or charm). The wise old shopkeeper then explained to me how the charm was to be worn on my shoes and was called "Karma"!

Anyway, when I resumed my informal studies about a decade later, I discovered the existence of asteroid Karma. I also discovered that at the time of my dream, asteroid Karma in my progressed chart was *exactly* (within 2 minutes) conjunct my progressed Pluto in the natal and progressed 12th. Transiting Karma was conjunct my Neptune-Mercury-Jupiter conjunction straddling the 2nd/3rd, which sextiles my Pluto. Amazing!

It made me realize how important the asteroids can be. Don't think I could make this stuff up if I tried.:)

LB said...

mike ~ I should also point out that while I'm not a professional astrologer, I'm also not a newbie.

I got interested in astrology when I was still a teenager. At one time, I think owned (and had read) all of Robert Hand's books, plus quite a few others.

Twilight said...

mike (again) ~ I shall continue to explore what there is online regarding planetary nodes and report back if anything seems of special note.

I look on Moon's nodes as definite sensitive points in the chart, because the Moon is so important in astrology. While planetary nodes could well have personal sensitivity attached too, apart from generational or era relevance, the chart would become so overloaded with sensitive points - what with midpoints and other stuff - if we're not careful, things could become really silly, and nothing would mean anything worthwhile anymore. This is one of the cons of the pros and cons of it for me. But I shall try to keep an open mind. :-)