Thursday, January 05, 2012

Ongoing Search.....

Back in 2006, when this blog was still wet behind its ears, I bemoaned the fact that I was unable to identify a likely teacher for myself being, so far, a self-taught student of astrology. I've updated that post, with experience of 5 years now behind me:

There's an old saying: "when the student is ready a teacher appears". This runs along the same lines as "cometh the hour, cometh the man". Do either of these ideas ring true ? There are examples upholding the second: Winston Churchill and Martin Luther King spring immediately to mind in support of it. The other saying, about student and teacher, is not as easy to see in action, at least on the world stage.

In my role, as a student of astrology, a specific teacher has never appeared. Perhaps I'm too obtuse or hard to please? Or perhaps my teacher has been around all the time, though not of the living, breathing variety. Perhaps the computer, astrology software, and the huge amount of information available online has, for me, fleshed-out the role of teacher.

I'd still be interested to find an astrologer or writer on the subject with whose ideas I feel comfortable. The further I've searched, the more disillusioned I've become on this score. I have always felt comfortable reading anything written by Jonathan Cainer, but he limits his subject to the elementary area of astrology which I'd like to think I have now mastered. I do admire Robet Hand, especially his excursions into the history of astrology. Even Mr Hand doesn't completely fit the bill for me though.

Where is the searcher who asks questions, looks for answers, and doesn't accept ancient doctrine and dogma wholesale?


Anonymous said...

GP: Concerning your quest for a teacher, T. I am about in similar shoes than you are. For some 40 years now I am involved with astrology, never had a teacher, other then books etc.

Had to think of Einstein. Without any pretention of course, but he also never had a teacher. But he went through "hell of an emotional ride", at times hoping and then fearing the military would end up testing his theories.

That must have given him sort of a 'vertical' dimension, if his theoretizing was more on the 'horizontal'.

With astrology I found that doing some readings for some people who badly need some advice because of their situation being difficult or similar, can add so-to-say a 'vertical' (emotional?) element.

Given that your "Ecliptic" is essentially a flat disk (just one, horizontal dimension) you may find interest to add something 'vertical' to your searches. And that can be fun or more dense in any case.

Also, sensing astrological affinities before the one-dimensional, rational mind has even heard of them, can become a deeper experience.

libramoon said...

Doesn't Elsa (AstroDispatch) do that?

Twilight said...

Anonymous/Gian Paul ~~ Hmmm - I'm not sure I follow, GP. Could you offer an example? I do not feel experienced enough to be giving advice to people - no way, no how!
What else would qualify as "vertical?

Sensing astrological affinities - yes, we've mentioned this in the past, and it's very intriguing, but doesn't allow any way to investigate it further. It's a purely personal experience which cannot really be proved or disproved, only experienced.

Twilight said...

libramoon ~~ Elsa does lean that way sometimes, yes, but only goes so far, sufficient to spur conversation with her commenters who are mostly of a different generation from my own (several generations removed in fact).

I've suspected, often, that I'm from a mainly non-astrological generation. There are very few in my age group who talk about astrology online, and few actual astrologers come from my generation (War Babies)- Noel Tyl is the only one I know of, and I don't relate to his style at all. (Aquarius the Obtuse, I guess).

Anonymous said...

GP: It happened to me to be asked about the time-frame of probable life left for a cancer patient. Who asked was the physician treating a patient who actually was his mother in law.

We had a long conversation, the 3 of us. And I will never forget the initial tension in the room and the type of appeasement and acceptance which followed. It was unique. But then I moved to Brazil.

Less dramatic: at various occasions I could help in cases of concerned parents, either because of drug addiction of one of their children, or their "queer" sexual orintation (by itself not clearly visible in a chart, apart, I found, a predominant rôle of Mercury).

In another circumstance, a French notary had been suspended from practice because of some fraud he had gotten himself involved into. His question: when will I be allowed by the tribunal to work again as a notary, if at all?

He had if I remember 5 or 6 young kids and just bought a new house.
As my (correct)prediction was positive for him and also for rather sooner then later, I still today relish the 10-course meal to which I was treated to commemorate (in France! with the corresponding best wines...).

These are the most salient of the cases. Just the other day I was to counsel the daughter of a neighbour here whether to study medecine or engeneering.

Taking responsibilty for what otherwise often is not much more than theory can indeed be 'vertical'. I however also believe that if it's done against payment, the value is not much higher than "exactly what the astrologer is being paid for".

Twilight said...

Anonymous/Gian Paul ~~

Oh - I didn't intend that you detail situations where you'd given advice - but thank you for doing so. I had assumed you had examples of other "vertical" ways of proceeding.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am not confident enough in my own abilities nor, and I have to say this, in astrology itself, as a vehicle for giving authentic help in serious circumstances. Astrology needs much more research - I believe it does!

As your advice has helped people, could it be in part, at least, that you are using a bit of the psychic, or intuition or just extensive experience of life to help?

I do believe there's a core of truth in astrology. That's why I feel drawn to persist with it. ONLY a core though, and a core which needs to be identified and understood.

That's just me though - the way I see it. Probably I'm on my own in this - as in many things. ;-)

CherryPie said...

When you have a quest for knowledge in a particular area the teacher will show up.

Sometimes in the most unexpected of places, and the most unexpected of people. The trick is not to miss them when they do...

It happened to me. I encountered someone in the most unexpected of places and was surprised that they would be interested in conversations with me...

The teacher didn't teach, just shared ideas and sought ideas from me in return.

We became friends, I learned a lot, but I wasn't 'taught' anything, just given ideas to explore for myself.

We were both enriched by the journey.

Twilight said...

Cherry Pie ~~ Hi! Yes, you are right, the trick is to know them if, and when the person or situation appears!

Something similar to your experience has happened to me in the past, at work. Maybe recently here too, in chatting to commenters on the blog....Gian Paul for example. :-)

Kaleymorris said...

This is a rather poignant post, asking, "Is there anybody out there?" It is ironic, too. Such a lonely question posed to the cacophony of the internet.

Anonymous said...

GP: T, red your comment and about your doubts re. not knowing enough to give any astrological advice to others.

You do know more than enough (tons in comparison to most not familiar with astrology)!

What can be extremely helpful is TIMING. Most people's concern is "how long will my inferno still persist?" (e.g. the French notary, other people I helped who were looking for a job, one even for a spouse! - and one for getting freed of his wife by a draging divorce case. etc.)

Experience comes with practice. And ultimately, LIFE IS OUR BEST TEACHER. Longing to "find a teacher" may be just an excuse not to dare acting, to take a jump - which is something 'vertical' by my definition. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

I think it's a huge responsibility to counsel people in extremis, as many who seek readings are; certainly why the American astrology associations require training in that aspect of it, beyond the technical.
I have had many readings from many different astrologers in the past few years and not one has been predictively accurate, nor much help pyschologically either.
Also, I understand your POV re one's generation: only recently I was musing that it is doubtful whether I shall see Pluto leave Capricorn and thinking that an astrologer of my era might wish to initiate a practice pertinent to those on the 'other' side of life: too often the view is like that of the investment analyst advising the elderly in long-term strategies....
I have always admired your forthrightness about the limits of astrology as you see them. Thanks for another thoughtful post.

Twilight said...

Kaleymorris ~~~ It does seem that way - voice in the wilderness,!

The internet is vast, but it has become sectioned off - into "cells"; people seldom venture outside of their own fairly narrow "cell" of territory.

Twilight said...

Anonymous/Gian Paul ~~ No - it isn't an excuse, I promise you, GP. Excuses don't appeal to me.

I would certainly dare to do as you suggest, in fact on two or three occasions when someone has asked me outright to do so, I have done it. I'd much prefer that more people learned the basics and were able to tell themselves the things astrology can fairly reliably advise.

Re the timing aspect - yes, that can sometimes be easy to advise upon - when a Saturn or Pluto transit to a personal planet is being felt, for example. And, again, that's something anyone can learn to see, and hel themselves, put it in context with what only they know about their own lives. It ain't rocket science. :-)

Twilight said...

Anonymous #2

Hi there! thank you for adding your thoughts on this, rather sensitive, subject.

I'm interested, but very sorry, to hear that astrologers haven't been able to help you.

You sound to be of my own generation, or near to it. I'll need plenty of luck healthwise to see Pluto move into Aquarius - not impossible, I guess, but not a cinch either - but then it isn't a cinch for any of us these days.

I appreciate your kind remarks!

Anonymous said...

GP: In my view it's better not to consult a professional astrologer. He/she quasi-automatically is bound not to say the whole truth, hoping to gain a return-client. But there are exceptions. How to find them is another matter. Kismet...

PS: on a more funny note, a Brazilian version of OWS:

Yesterday a bank was "successfully robbed", lots of money, no blodshed.

Before leaving the 12 robbers forced the staff and the clients taken hostage to sing "happy birthday" and 3 times(!) for their chief, whose birthdy is on Jan. 5th. A special Capricorn, for certain...

Twilight said...

Anonymous/Gian Paul ~~ I agree with your view on professionals - at least some of them. That's another good reason for people to learn a little astrology for themselves.

Kismet! Lovely word, lovely concept. Good stage show/movie too!

LOL! I like your Brazilian version of OWS - to my English sensibilities the story seems like pure Monty Python. :-D

Jennifer the Chaos Queen said...

I hear ya. Actually the part about "this isn't the generation for astrology" may be why. I used to go to Pantheacon and I attempted to do presentations on intermediate-level topics and got a handful of people at each. But the one time AstroBarry did a beginners lecture, the room was full. You'd think at a conference with thousands of Bay Area pagans, there'd be more people who were experts in astrology...and there were NOT.

As for people I know in real life who have studied it, one isn't that into it any more these days (or at least, isn't interested in mentoring) and the other lives an hour and a half away from me and I don't think she's interested in mentoring either. I wouldn't ask a professional because they are running a business.

Really, I've just had to teach myself off books and the Internet. Which is probably doing better than most people, really.

Twilight said...

Hi there, Jennifer!
Many thanks for your input. :-)

The one person who helped get me seriously into astrology (& tarot), someone I knew at work, back in the UK died years ago - much too soon too. She was a generation younger than me. I guess she was something of a mentor.

Computers and astro software have changed the whole scene - luckily for me! I'd never have managed to calculate and draw natal charts all by myself!