Saturday, August 22, 2015

Fantasy ? ~ Sanders vs Trump

This piece, by Chris Weigant, puts forward an intriguing possibility - he does state emphatically that he's writing not about probability, but mere possibility.

Sanders Versus Trump Would Be Fun.

A few snippets:
Could the next presidential election be one where both sides get the candidate who inspires the most passion among the base? It would have seemed almost ridiculous to suggest as recently as last month, but the possibility that America could be given the choice of Donald Trump versus Bernie Sanders doesn't seem so far-fetched nowadays. If these are the choices the two major parties coalesce behind, it'll certainly be one of the most unique presidential elections ever.................
The case for Trump becoming the Republican nominee is the easiest to make. He's leading in all the polls, and he has yet to be bested by any other Republican candidate, or even tarnished badly enough by his own off-the-cuff comments that the Republican base starts flocking to someone else. ...................Making the case for Bernie Sanders winning the Democratic primaries is harder, of course, because Hillary Clinton is still far and away the Democratic frontrunner. But Bernie's fortunes have been on the rise, while Clinton's have shrunk somewhat.............................
The Donald Trump phenomenon, of course, isn't really about being the most pure conservative out there. The analogy's not perfect. Trump is truly a politician who defies pigeonholing. His breaking ranks with conservatives on certain issues hasn't hurt him one bit, at least so far. His fans love his brash style so much they don't really care if they don't agree with everything he says. Bernie Sanders is closer to the idea of a party purist, since on pretty much every single issue, he's been out there fighting for years for things that other Democrats have just recently gotten on board with (such as gay rights or reining in Wall Street, to give just two examples). While Trump is mostly all about style, Sanders is mostly all about substance.
............Which is really why it's so fun to speculate about. America would, for once, get two candidates who refused to put on their party's usual muzzle. Issues the candidates champion simply couldn't be ignored by the mainstream media (they way they normally do for "populist candidates"). This is already happening over on the Republican side, mostly due to Trump's oversized personality.................
Do, please go read the full piece - I read it to the end without skimming, which is unusual for me!

So...let's carry the fantasy into the astrology of it. From their natal charts does Sanders or Trump have the better chance of winning an election to be president of the USA?

Bernie Sanders, born in Brooklyn, New York on 8 September, 1941. No time of birth known. Chart set for 12 noon.

Donald Trump, born on 14 June 1946 in Jamaica, New York at 10.54 AM

For good measure, the USA chart, borrowed from Astrodienst:

Trump has an astrological advantage in that we have his time of birth, and none for Bernie Sanders.

Looking to Moon positions first, because it's said that, in astrology, the Moon most represents the people. Whose Moon is most compatible with the USA chart's Aquarius Moon? Trump's Moon in Sagittarius is, sign-wise helpfully sextile US Moon, and in the same sign as the US chart's ascendant. Bernie's Moon, though we can't know its degree without time of birth, would have been in Aries, which would be very roughly in helpful sextile to USA's Aquarius Moon, and Sagittarius ascendant. So, I'd call that a tie. These men each have the possibility of being "in tune" to a good proportion of people of the USA.

Bernie's Virgo Sun and Donald's Gemini Sun are both ruled by Mercury. In Astrodienst's version of the USA chart mid-heaven is in Mercury-ruled Virgo. Bernie's Virgo Sun blends more easily with USA's Sun in Cancer. I'd say Bernie wins that one.

And yet, and yet - Donald Trump's chart screams success in general. I don't know - any ideas - not forgetting that this IS fantasy, not reality - yet!

Postscript ~ Bob Burnett's piece at The Smirking Chimp on Friday,
Bernie vs. Donald: Rebel vs. Insurgent sets out factual differences in the two candidates' stances.


mike said...

Fun essay by Chris Weigant proposing an interesting draw between The Donald and Bernie. We can only hope the insiders become the outsiders for a change of pace. It would be wonderful to have the Dems and Repubs self-destruct and foment in their own wasteland.

I suspect Trump's support will remain strong for the next several months, particularly with transiting Venus and Mars, both now in Leo, making a number of positive aspects to his natal planets. The current retrograde transit of Venus has enhanced his natal Mars, providing him with charisma and masculine (aggressive leadership) appeal, albeit to a select group. A partial solar eclipse at 20* Virgo will form a T-square with his natal Sun-Moon opposition (he was born just prior to a lunar eclipse, so this involves his N-S nodes, too) and marks a turning point of some sort. The full Moon eclipse of September 28th opposes his Neptune (transiting Sun conjunct natal Neptune) and T-squares with his Mercury...something unusual happens here...perhaps the GOP tosses him and he runs independent? Things start to escalate favorably for him in late October, as transiting Venus, Mars, and Jupiter all conjunct at 14-15* Virgo, in his first house of image. He's likely to become more outrageous and too pumped-up at this time. Come March, 2016, trouble comes via transiting Saturn at 16* Sagittarius and transiting Pluto at 17* Capricorn...both planets form negative, long-term aspects.

Bernie on the other hand, will benefit greatly from the partial solar eclipse at 20* Virgo, September 13th, and even more so with the Venus, Mars, Jupiter conjunction at 15* Virgo...right on his late October. The lunar eclipse on September 28th is trine his Pluto and the transiting Sun will conjunct his natal Mercury...he might make a bold statement at this time, but it will appeal to the collective. Bernie's greatest challenge right now is to get past transiting Saturn's opposition to his natal Saturn and Uranus, which starts to diminish in early October. I believe Bernie's astrology trumps Trump.

The eclipses of 2016 favor Bernie and disfavor Trump. The solar eclipse of March 8th will unbalance Trump, but will be on Bernie's South Node and Bernie will be having a N-S Node return. It's interesting to note that these two guys have Nodes in square...Bernie's N Node at 22* Virgo, The Donald's at 22* Gemini.

mike (again) said...

My comment from your post,

"His natal chart is invigorated by transits during this endeavor, and he's a seasoned politician that can make the most of them. Transiting Saturn will be squaring his Sun (probably the tiring exercise of campaigning, limits, doubt), transiting Uranus will be conjunct his Mars (zesty!) and possibly Moon, depending on time of birth. Transiting Jupiter will be square his Jupiter and conjunct his Sun, N Node, Neptune, then Mercury, in that order up through the election, while transiting N Node will be conjunct those same planets in reverse order...all good and optimistic aspects with forward, future direction. Pluto will trine his Sun throughout, which will certainly bring him to the collective's attention in a positive way. Not bad overall...wish we had his time of birth to know the effects by house."

Sonny G said...

This just proves one persons fantasy is another persons Nightmare:)

Twilight said...

mike + (again) ~ Thanks muchly for these astrological pointers. I'm happy to see that they do point in the direction that seems most likely - as far as Donald Trump is concerned, anyway. He'll become so full of himself (even more than he is usually) that he'll be very likely to self-destruct in some way.

Bernie has the planets on his side, which is not to be sniffed at! Against Trump, on astrology's showing, Bernie would win, I agree.

(This reminds me of those fantasy boxing bouts fans used to propose, between highly unlikely participants. Though Sanders vs Trump is pure fantasy on 22 August, let's see what it looks like in a few months from now!) :-)

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ Indeed, yet without a bit of fun the whole thing could be everyone's nightmare. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mugsy says ...

- Deez guyz are from New Yoick?
- Dere Jupiter's are trine, and da Saturn's are sextile
- But Ohh ... doze Mars/Saturns

- Da top pitcha's better cause Boinee's on da left!

Twilight said...

Anon/kidd/Mugsy ~ Yeah native New Yorkers both. Bernie's been in Vermont for a long time though.

Mugsy has a pretty shrewd eye for astrology. Trump used to be a Democrat - if he'd stayed that way these two guys might even have been friends, though it's hard to visualise. :-)

Hmm - yes I hadn't noticed the left-rightness of the photos. Tsk! :-)

anyjazz said...

Sanders is looking better and better.

Twilight said...

anyjazz ~ Indeed! And this will not please some members of the DNC. Watch next for corporate media's psy-opsing efforts to denigrate Sanders and his supporters.