Tuesday, August 11, 2015

Early Degrees Can Be Fun

In yesterday's post there was a mention of the possibility that the middle degrees of a zodiac sign could have some relation to music and musical abilities. That possibility reminded me of something I investigated in my early years of astrology blogging - not relating to middle degrees, but to the early degrees. I had wondered whether the early degrees of zodiac signs had some relevance to humour, in particular to the talent for cartooning. I looked for birthdates of a few favourite cartoonists, then compared charts. I did note a common factor, in looking at 12 noon charts, as birth times are unknown. I noticed, and it's not necessarily astrologically significant - but it might be - most were born with the Sun or Mercury on the edge of, or in early degrees of the zodiac sign, and/or there are other planets in early degrees too. Look.....

From the British press of the 1950s and 60s Wally Fawkes aka Trog ("Flook") 21 June 1924, Vancouver, Canada.

The incomparable Carl Giles ("Giles"). 29 September 1916, Islington, London, England. Giles is the odd one out of this group of 5 because he didn't specialise in cartoon strips, he put everything into one big drawing. You had to study it carefully to see all the fun.This example is too small , but the best I could manage.

From the USA, the legendary Walt Kelly ("Pogo"), 25 Aug 1913, Philadelphia PA

Charles Schulz ("Peanuts") 26 Nov 1922, Minneapolis, Minnesota and

Bill Watterson ("Calvin and Hobbes") 5 July 1958 Washington DC

Berkeley Breathed ("Opus", "Bloom County", "Outland") 21 June 1957, Encino, California.


Wally Fawkes: SUN 00* Cancer
Walt Kelly: SUN 1* Virgo. Pluto 00*Cancer, Uranus 4*Aquarius
Charles Schulz: SUN 3* Sagittarius. Venus 1*Sagittarius, Jupiter 6* Scorpio.
Carl Giles: SUN 5* Libra, Jupiter 3* Taurus, Pluto 4*Cancer
Bill Watterson: (a bit later) SUN 13*Cancer, but Mercury slipped into 1* Leo, Pluto 00*Virgo, Neptune 2* Scorpio.
Berkeley Breathed: SUN 00*Cancer, Mars 00*Leo, Uranus 5*Leo

All this proves nothing, of course, it could be pure coincidence. I chose the 6 cartoonists because I like them, and they are well known. I wonder, though, could the early degrees of all zodiac signs carry some qualities of Aries, first sign of the zodiac.....a childlike, fun-loving flavour, which might lead an artist towards cartooning ?

How about Gary Larson, of "The Far Side" fame? He was born on 14 August 1950, Tacoma, Washington. Sun and Mercury are not in early degrees here. But Mars at 2 Scorpio, Jupiter at 3 Pisces, Uranus at 7 Cancer, the Nodes at 00 Aries/Libra. The Moon is more than likely to be in early degrees

Female cartoonists? There are a few, but none as well known as their masculine colleagues.

An early female cartoonist was Dahlia (Dale) Messick, originator of the "Brenda Starr" comic strip about a glamorous red-headed a reporter who has a taste for fashion, romance and intrigue. I've written a full post about her, with natal chart, here. She was born 11 April 1906 in South Bend Indiana. Talented and witty as she was though, her work doesn't have the same whimsical quality as that of, say Charles Schulz. It's a different style entirely. Even so, she had 3 planets in those early degrees, which might possibly be a kind of signature for cartoonists -Venus 4*Taurus, Jupiter 5* Gemini and Uranus 8* Capricorn.

Another female cartoonist, with birth data available, is Cathy Guisewite. Her  focus is mainly on feminist or feminine issues. Cathy Guisewite was born 5 September 1950 in Dayton,Ohio. Early degrees as follows: Mercury 2* Libra. Jupiter 1* Pisces, Uranus 8* Cancer.

Different - yet similar:
The 2006 movie "Idiocracy" was written, produced and directed by Mike Judge. A satirical, somewhat twisted, illogical yet funny look at what the world (or more accurately, the USA) might be like after 500 years have passed. The premise is that the USA is becoming more and more dumbed down as years go by. The brainy intelligentsia do not breed at nearly the same rate as yo-yos. Therefore, in time, the yo-yos will take over. Mike Judge was acting as a kind of cartoonist here, doing a similar thing, using a different medium.

Mike Judge was born on 17 October 1962 in Guayaquil, Ecuador. No birth time available. There are several planets in early degrees of their signs: Mercury 6* Libra, Mars 2* Leo, Jupiter 3* Pisces, Saturn 4* Aquarius. Also Moon's nodes @ 4 Leo/Aquarius.

Is it time to rest my case for the early degrees often playing a significant part in cartoonists' birth charts? It's interesting, anyway, to notice this phenomenon popping up.


JD said...

Robert Crumb?



Sonny G said...

I'm curious as to whether this would also apply to comedians.. seems it should.

Twilight said...

JD ~ Robert Crumb - yes - good idea - I've just now looked at his natal chart at Astrotheme - and he fits this idea, with his Mercury, Neptune, Sun, Mars and possibly Moon in the early degrees.

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ Could be - I probably tried to cross check that back in 2007, but don't remember result. Comedians and cartoonists, though similar are different too, they use different types of talents, one couldn't necessarily do what the other does. :-)
I'll take a look at a few charts later.

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ A very quick skim through my archives showed Billy Connolly, Gilda Radner, Eric Idle, Mel Brooks, and Seth MacFarlane with more than one planet in the early degrees, some of them with natal Sun early. Lenny Bruce & Tracy Ullman didn't fit though.

Sonny G said...

after I posted my comment- I actually cringed at how silly my question was.

I know very well that comedic humor is most often born of pain and humor functions as their release for a little while..

so many comedians turn to drugs and alcohol when they realize the relief they sought thru fame was all to fleeting.

thanks for looking through your archives for me..

mike said...

Your data infer your conclusion, so I would say you are correct based on your analysis, but this doesn't necessarily prove your thesis, as you note. The larger the sample size, the more assurance you'll have.

Many of your examples have Venus and-or Pluto rising before the Sun: "oriental" of the Sun. Is this significant? Sun in Cancer, Leo, or Virgo is supported by your examples, with one having Sun in Libra and the other in Sagittarius. Is this significant? Do all cartoonists have their Suns only in the six signs, Cancer through Sagittarius?

Sonny - Comedians have an astrological correlation of Sun conjunct Saturn according to http://astrologyresearch.co.uk/the-most-important-factor-in-the-choice-of-career/ .

BTW - "Berkeley Breathed" is back:

Twilight said...

mike ~ Looking for patterns, of a sort, I guess that's what we're doing here. We could be seeing some patterns that aren't there, or missing one that is. Of course, this sample is way, way too small, but in picking out some of my own favourite best-known cartoonists, the early degrees did hit me in the eye, it was something I hadn't expected, but then had to wonder about.

I wouldn't say that planets in early degrees, or Venus "oriental", or any particular Sun signs are definite markers for cartooning talent, but just that someone with these astro factors natally could have access to a useful skill-set if other factors (education, environment etc......the usual) were compatible too. Conversely it wouldn't mean that anyone without these factors in their natal chart could not be a successful cartoonist. Other combinations might be equally helpful. This is why astrology is so impossible to prove, one way or t'other.

What do you think about early degrees of any sign carrying the broad "childlike" gene (as in Aries)? And if the middle degrees have any compatibility with music (as mentioned in yesterday's post) could they carry a broad fine arts gene (as in Libra)? Which leaves the late degrees...what broad gene could they carry? Social conscience, or legal ?
Could there be some secondary wave going on in each sign...a bit like the decan and duad ideas - but different?

mike (again) said...

I can't say too much about the degrees of any sign, whether by "early", decan, or monomeric, symbolic degree. I've avoided the Sabian, Thebaic, Janduz, et al, symbolic degrees for the most part...too much information and too many added variables. I have read and tried to incorporate some of the decanate principles and I would say that what you call "early degrees" probably would fall into this category, ie "early degrees" equals first decan, but you also blend the "late degrees" with the "early degrees". I'm NOT saying your observation-analysis is wrong, just that I have no idea...LOL. Your "late-early" concept does appeal to my observation that there is a cusp between signs that seems to contain properties of the two signs combined. The onset of sunrise is gradual with no off-on switch and is a gradual blending of dark toward light. Sea level is not fixed and is the zone between high and low tides. I suspect that the last five degrees of each sign can be blended with the first five degrees of the next sign to have its own decan, which is a cusp between the two. Most astrologers abhor this idea!

There are different interpretations of decanates, too. Have you read this regarding the 36 minor constellations?

Here are two links for the modern (triplicity) decanates:

mike (again) said...

Also, it's my observation that the mid-degrees of each sign tend to be the truer characteristics and qualities of that sign, primarily because they are fully in the middle of that sign. My Mercury, Venus, and Sun are 2nd decan Scorpio...in the middle of Scorpio. I relate to them as having some of the strongest of Scorpio's characteristics. Yet, by modern decans, these three planets fall under the Pisces' rulership of the 2nd decan of Scorpio. So, I dunnnnnnno!

Twilight said...

mike (again) ~ When I mentioned decans I didn't mean to imply that this thingie involved with early- mid- and late- sign degrees could be connected with that concept exactly, but that it could be seen as erm...that type of concept - or...oh I dunno - in that kind of ballpark. Lol!

Thanks for the links. I have written about decans and duads in the past. Not sure whether I go along with it or not, but I've always thought it interesting. I've no time at all for Sabian symbols and suchlike though.

This early- mid- late- degree thing I've dreamed up could just be my imagination. I'm keen on the idea of waves though - time waves, waves of resonance, space waves, whatever. Without ignoring the zodiac, as it stands, couldn't there be another layer, not a strong layer, but a subtle breeze of "flavour" that changes two or three times during the time the Sun passes through each sign, giving a specific "feel" to each part of the sign.

I'm likely talking here through an orifice not normally used for that purpose. :-)

LB said...

Twilight ~ I see what you're getting at. Maybe!

My musician grandfather (who later in life earned a living as, among other things, a professional sign-painter and calligrapher) once painted a big beautiful mural of the seven dwarfs . . . if they count as cartoon characters. It was amazing.

This was waaaay back in the days when advertisers still used hand-painted signs.

His Aquarius Sun was in the early degrees of Aquarius, with its traditional ruler (and modern co-ruler), Saturn, conjunct at 0 degrees Aquarius. And his Neptune (artistic inspiration) and Pallas were conjunct at 0 degrees Cancer.:)

As an aside, here's the link to something about Pallas and its association with art and "creative intelligence":


LB said...

Wow. Your post just helped me to better understand a recent dream I had about a mysterious girl-child born to my deceased father, a little person (or 'dwarf') with huge eyes.

When I was trying to interpret the dream (which was long and complex), I hadn't remembered my paternal grandfather's mural. It's so interesting how our unconscious uses specific symbols (and stored memories) to speak to us.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Ooooh - that's interesting - though it does go a bit against the mid-degree music link idea, unless your grandfather had some middle degrees in his chart too. :-)

Thank you for the link on Pallas.

I'm happy that reading here opened a window to your dream. :-) I can't imagine what it must be like to have long complex dreams - I seldom remember dreams at all, and if I do, they are just short snippets. I do remember them for a long time though, decades in fact, whenever I've had a vivid memory of one, however short.

LB said...

Twilight ~ My grandfather also had a mid-degree Grand Trine in air ~ Venus/Mercury conjunct in Aquarius, Pluto in Gemini and Mars/North Node in Libra (I'd forgotten our Nodes are conjunct.)

He was a drummer, who toured with Jack Teagarden (the "Father of Jazz Trombone) among others.

I love dreaming.:) Aren't you glad you at least remember some of them?

LB (again) said...

I have a Grand Trine in air as well, part of a Kite. No drumming for me though.

LB (yet again) said...

Actually my grandfather's Grand Trine was part of a Kite too, only the opposing points (or at least one of them) were in the later degrees of the sign.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Yes, I'm glad I remember one or two old dreams. ;-)
I'll tell husband about your grandpa touring with Jack Teagarden - he'll be interested. He's a died-in-the-wool jazz fan.

Anonymous said...

And my Mother lived in the same house as Fraser ...

... It's a small world sometimes.


Twilight said...

Anonymous/kidd ~"Small, and funny and fine" as that old song goes.
Thanks kidd - I've passed that on to the husband. :-)