On art, music, books, movies, politics, life - sometimes with astrology thrown in.
Wednesday, November 04, 2015
Foresight of the Hippies
Just a video today. I first linked to it in 2011. The intervening years haven't changed much, in fact they've only brought things highlighted by the video into even clearer focus
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26 comments:
mike
said...
Hhmmmmm...I'll have to repeat my sentiment on this issue. I can't argue the points made in this video about plutocrats, greed, and corporate supremacy. The video marginalizes and provides the aura of victim-think for us subordinates. Walmart, et al, would cease to exist, if we underlings stopped buying those cheap goods. Those mom-and-pop stores would thrive, if we quit purchasing cheap goods at Walmart, et al, and patronized the small business owner. It's much easier to tune-out the almost daily bombardments of child labor, horrid working conditions, etc, that the manufacturers of the myriad, cheap products we purchase provide, not to mention that many of these goods are manufactured in countries that are communist and have some of the worst human rights and environmental regulations, but we consumers will somehow overlook that.
Many of the dirty effin hippies have managed to accumulate wealth through savvy investments that support the very notions they once expulsed, but traded for monetary security by investing in stocks, bonds, funds, futures, and equities...those very conglomerates that are so injurious to the planet and the consumers they "serve". Most of us Americans and first-world citizens want our piece of the cake, but are ever so willing to avoid the issue of sharing our less-than wealth with our less fortunate global citizens in third-world countries. We feel we are already getting the short end of the stick, so why make it shorter by sharing and equalizing?!
Is it coincidence that the video cover is of the old-style hippy Volkswagen? Volkswagen (and Audi, Porsches) is in deep doo-doo currently for its emissions' scandal. What was once the vehicle, the peoples' vehicle, choice of the effin hippies is now embroiled in consumer fraud. Just about every major corporation has or is involved in some form of aberrant consumer behavior, tax avoidance, employee-contractor malfeasance, or environmental degradation. A majority of Americans and global population is employed by these behemoths that we love to hate...most of us consign services and purchases to these egregious outfits, and many have them in their 401K portfolios.
A majority of Americans have willingly allowed our government to run a muck in the name of national and personal security. According to Benjamin, we get what we give: "Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither."
I can only speak for Americans and few of us care enough to take action toward any issue. We are a bunch of whiny consumers, easily manipulated, self-interested, and placated by some of the most ridiculous indulgences. There are those that care, but not in sufficient numbers to cause an effect.
mike ~ LOL! It's no laughing matter, I know but reading your comment made me think of a court scene, with you as a sort of Witness for the Prosecution. :-)
I don't do victim-think, but I do "get" what you're saying.
It was inevitable that some hippies would, eventually, slide across into the dark side - human nature being what it is. Still, they were right when they were right (or should that be left!?)
Hmmm - yes, good point - I hadn't perceived the irony of that Volkswagen "bug" covered in hippie decor on the video's first screen, vis-a-vis the current scandal faced by Volkswagen and others.
I try to always side with "The People", as you no doubt will have gathered, and I dare say there's some kind of argument to be made on their behalf here, against your accusations, but it'd take a better brain than mine to put it forward. I've commented to Anyjazz, many times, how shocked I am that the people of the US had never risen up with regard to the terrible privatised health care situation here (prior to ACA, which is only a partial help anyway).
Coming from a country that's around the size of a biggish US state, it has always amazed me that this vast country could be effectively run at all by a central government, yet that's what is needed, at least in regard to issues concerning health care, welfare, defence and suchlike - otherwise what's the point of being "United" at all? The size of the country has made it that much harder for "The People" to come together in large enough numbers for any country-wide protest....until the coming of the internet, that is, but that's a coming together of communal minds, not bodies. Still, it's a start.
***************
By the way, I hadn't noticed your comment of a few days ago about your blood test results - am so pleased all was well. I'd not have found that comment if it weren't for a daft, pre-coffee finger fumble early this morning when I accidentally sent the week's comments into the spam folder, then had to fish them out again, individually! LOL! Also, I must wish you Many, Many Happy Returns before I forget - am not sure of the day but it's around now, I know.
Thanks, Twilight! I can't say that I'm too enthused about gaining another year, except that I'm sturdy stuff. I've never disliked becoming older, but now that I'm this far into the ride, with miles behind me, I'm aware that the destination can't be too far away. Both parents made it into their 90s, so genetics may dictate, as long as I don't step into on-coming traffic. Nothing sad about it...it's actually exciting to me to have made it this far and not knowing when the bus door will open and I'm kicked-off...LOL. Could've happened years ago, so I'm glad for the extra scenery.
Your post today is reminiscent of my dirty hippy days! I once identified as such and eventually cast it aside for the more conservative rewards of corporate life. My first comment, above, is from first-hand knowledge. I'd still be there had "fate" not intervened in May, 2000, when transiting Uranus in Aquarius and transiting Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in Taurus set-up a grand square and pinged my sequence of semi-sextiles within my natal chart, forever changing my future. I'm satisfied with the sequence of events that I chose, but I'm often left chewing on the collapsed sticks that once supported it all. Also, as I mentioned yesterday, a Vedic astrology website stated that my Saturn period coincided with that collapse and would last a duration of about 15 years. I lost many material goods, but I gained much beyond the tangible. I'm pleased that I escaped the corporate world and became a less corrosive person in the process.
My solar return does appear appetizing this year. I have found that SRs may have some validity, but who knows?! As we've discussed, the many variables within astrology make finding correlations relatively easy...like finding a grain of sand at the beach or straw in a straw pile.
BTW - PBS' "The Brain", episode four airs tonight at 9 PM and are available online or on the Roku PBS channel. The series is excellent! Episode three got into free-will and how real is it. There are actually some scientific experiments investigating free-will and the results are surprising.
I agree, we are whiny and selfish.. as for the hippie ideas- they were good ones.
those kids grew into adults and when they did, they came to the realization that all the pure ideas wouldn't hold up to real life and their need to survive it.
PS_ yes Mike I read both articles you posted Friday evening ,, then I came back and asked you about brands as well as powder or pill form..
mike (again) ~ Oh, but you're "no'but a lad yet" as they say in Yorkshire! That much further along the ride, as I am, the destination is somewhat nearer, but not yet in full focus (barring accidents). I think my old ancestral hardy rural-strength genes should be good for a bit longer, all things being equal - tornadoes and Universe willing of course! :-)
Thanks for the heads-up about "The Brain" on PBS. I'm not sure anyjazz will think it his cup o'tea, but I'll try to remember to give it a whirl.
Twilight ~ A lot of the "hippies" I grew up with as a child (they were older than me) ended up making quite a bit of money off of the same systems they once protested against!
Democrats, Republicans, even *some* of those claiming to be 'Socialists' (sorry Twilight, but Bernie comes to mind) participate in and profit from our capitalistic, plutocratic systems of greed and perpetual war.
As mike's already pointed out, most of us here in the U.S. profit in various ways too, myself included. It's much easier to point fingers at someone 'out there' than it is to look in the mirror.
Much as we love the *idea* of a more just and sustainable world, most of us are less willing to make the sacrifices it would take to get there, even the small ones. I understand how hard it is to give up many of the comforts, conveniences, sources of income and/or social support we've come to depend upon and take for granted.
Then too, some of us don't know and don't WANT to know about the ways in which we're all complicit. And some are in survival mode and don't have much of a choice, which is the way it's always been.
LB ~ Well, yes, accepted - up to a point, and only up to a point. What the hippies were saying back then though was, as the video states f***ing right. That's the point. What some of 'em did later on, and what most of us do now isn't the point of this post.
As I commented to mike, it's human nature and to be expected that some would slide in their ideals. I do not accept that Senator Sanders is a guilty one in that respect. If you are going to point out something in response, do please balance it with all the good he has done for ordinary Americans in his state and city over the years. He is the last one who could be accused of corporate-type greed.
LB - Thanks! Yes, tomorrow marks the day of entry (re-entry?!).
You mention that some (most) of the hippies grew-up and made $ off the same systems they protested. That was me. Once I graduated university, I set my sail toward a career and worked my way up the ladder of success. I suppose, in hind-sight, I was trying to satisfy an inferiority complex...and, hey, by the 1980s, hippies were SO out-moded! A very good, long-lost friend from my former hippy days contacted me when I was achieving the career peak...she was living on a commune and wanted to visit me in CA, about 1995. She quickly disconnected when I sent her my pager (remember those?) phone number along with my home and office phone numbers...LOL. Never heard from her again. I guess hippies can be judgmental, too.
Twilight ~ I believe what we DO (and NOT just on behalf of our own family/community/political party/city/state/country/tribe) is generally more important than what we say.
Most of us (and that includes elected members of government and even many corporations) have done good for someone somewhere, often at the expense of someone or something somewhere else.
If you or I buy a garment from a small local business that employs local workers and pays a descent living wage, BUT the garment was sewn by an exploited child-worker in a foreign country and is made from cotton grown using more exploited workers exposed to toxic pesticides and using short-sighted farming methods that destroy water, land and community, and then is shipped across the world using fossil fuels, polluting sea and air in the process . . . I'm helping someone, hurting someone/something else.
The same could be said about Bernie, who, while doing good for local workers in Burlington, appears to have sacrificed his former ideals when it came to unjust wars and their weapons.
One very telling example is given in the following excerpt from a SOCIALISTWORKER.org post:
"My first experience with Bernie came shortly after he was elected mayor, and I moved to Burlington partly on that basis. It came while I was participating in a Central American solidarity action at a General Electric Gatling Gun factory in the early 1980s in support of peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua against whom the machine guns mounted on helicopters were being used.
One would have expected, and I certainly did at the time, that Bernie--back then, much more of an "avowed socialist" than he is today--would have supported our civil disobedience protests to rid the "Peoples Republic of Burlington" from this odious human rights blot. Burlington had a sister city in Nicaragua.
But Bernie did not. Instead, I vividly remember Bernie standing arms-folded alongside the right-wing union officials from the factory and the Burlington Police Department as we were being arrested. He falsely insinuated that we were "anti-worker," and he refused to have any serious political dialogue with us activists. Bernie next made cozy with the cops and their union, who endorsed him in his future mayoral elections." http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/13/sanders-isnt-a-left-alternative
Twilight, I just performed a search on your site for Aquarian Phil Collins (January 30, 1951), but couldn't find anything. Some old, online photos have him looking like a hippy. He announced he was back and out of retirement in May this year, and I've been seeing internet blurbs regarding a change.org petition: "Petitioning United Nations/Phil Collins Must Be Stopped", https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-phil-collins-must-be-stopped?recruiter=40727672
This is obviously not a serious petition, but it probably will receive the required signatures. I wasn't aware that Phil Collins was so controversial until I viewed his Wiki page. I've always enjoyed his music along with Peter Gabriel and Genesis.
Many musicians from the hippy days found immense wealth concomitant with the fame.
BTW Twilight, I'm not saying (nor do I think) Bernie is a terrible person. I just think his record speaks for itself. As president, his less desirable qualities would play out on a more significant scale.
mike ~ I'm anonymous. Don't know how that happened. So your SR is a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Moon sextile Mercury and Pluto (ruler of your Sun) sextile the MC/Sun seem promising!
mike ~ Re Phil Collins - was never a fan so hadn't read anything about this. This is just a silly petition it seems - wanting to stop him and older rock stars from continuing their careers. (Pluto in Leo generation never want to give up!)
I took a quick look at his Wiki page - I wasn't aware he'd been in any way controversial - but then I wouldn't have known about it as his type of music wasn't my thing. I saw him in a film once, about The Great Train Robbery - he wasn't too bad in it from what I recall. Maybe there's a lot of professional jealousy involved.
LB ~ LB ~ I'd prefer to hear Sanders' side of that story too. But all I'm going to repeat is - none of this is what that YouTube video was about - the "dirty fuckin' hippies", though decried by many at the time, were proved right - that's all!
Twilight ~ Yes, some were *saying* all the right things back then, and, to be fair, *some* have followed through in their lifestyles and choices. I do understand the point of your post.
Hopefully you also understand my point, which is that it's more important how we walk our talk ~ though you may disagree.
LB ~ The hippies were instrumental in putting out ideas - sending them out into the ethers if you will, to hover around for decades. The fact that some individuals or groups didn't carry those ideas through is another topic. The hippies' ideas came back in another guise for another generation, with OWS (Occupy Wall Street), I believe the surge in support of Bernie Sanders campaign is another echo, re-dressed, re-arranged for current times.
I see your demands that we, in all circumstances, must always walk our talk as idealistic and admirable, but not capable of being adhered to on every level. We are human beings, not machines.
I prefer to try to see what some call "the big picture" in all of this. Ideas of the hippies, and even some of their predecessors didn't come to fruition, it wasn't time. OWS faded away - it wasn't time. You'll probably be pleased when (and if) Bernie Sanders' campaign falters. If it does it will tell us it wasn't time. Again. At the very least, though, he will have left more of a dent in what's possible than the hippies or OWS managed. If his campaign falters there will be an even stronger effort, by someone else at some time in the future. Not all will walk their talk, but as long as enough of them do - that'll be all that's needed. And eventually - it WILL be time.
I'm pleased whenever people treat one another with awareness, respect and compassion; I'll take no particular pleasure in Bernie's campaign failing, *if* and when it does fail. I've said before I'm glad Bernie is bringing more attention to certain issues, though if elected, I *think* it unlikely he'd be much different (or more effective) than who we have now.
The problem with the "big picture" you refer to is that it's easy to overlook and dehumanize those we either can't relate to or don't see, like the "peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua" who had weapons aimed at them, weapons produced here in the US, in factories like the one in Burlington which Bernie supported and where ordinary Americans found employment.
Since Bernie is running for President and since your post was about how hippies got it right, it's fair to point out some of apparent contradictions in former peace-loving hippie, Bernie's, political ideals ~ such as his support of the UBER expensive military F-35 jets (designed to drop bombs in foreign countries), the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 and, more recently, Israel's attack on Gaza, among other examples.
There are a lot of folks who care about the world, Twilight. Folks who want change and are trying to live lives that make a difference ~ and who won't be voting for Bernie.
This is a much more eloquent summary of the current malaise in society (and to a certain extent reflects Mike's opening comment) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDu3JdQ8Ow
JD ~ Thanks for the link. You know, I almost used the quote at the end of the video ("Be the change you wish to see in the world") in my own comment, but decided against it. Still, it's what I believe is most true about ourselves and our relationship to one another and the planet we live on.
It's what I meant by walking our talk, or *trying* to anyway.:)
JD ~ Thanks for the link. Alan Watts is a very good commentator on just about any topic. This topic, though, is a scratchy one for me. We are human, we are what we are and we have evolved accordingly. Those apparently more enlightened will criticise continually and for ever, but this is the way our communal human nature works. Those who purport to advise are really hitting their heads against a brick wall. We are what we are and preaching to us to change will not change us, even though we can see what we're doing.
This is the conclusion I've reached now anyway. That being so, let us at least try to be happy while we can. If we make that change a change to being positive, being happy and enthusiastic and grateful for our lives, rather than scolding and criticising, it may be a change that could bring other changes we hadn't even thought of.
26 comments:
Hhmmmmm...I'll have to repeat my sentiment on this issue. I can't argue the points made in this video about plutocrats, greed, and corporate supremacy. The video marginalizes and provides the aura of victim-think for us subordinates. Walmart, et al, would cease to exist, if we underlings stopped buying those cheap goods. Those mom-and-pop stores would thrive, if we quit purchasing cheap goods at Walmart, et al, and patronized the small business owner. It's much easier to tune-out the almost daily bombardments of child labor, horrid working conditions, etc, that the manufacturers of the myriad, cheap products we purchase provide, not to mention that many of these goods are manufactured in countries that are communist and have some of the worst human rights and environmental regulations, but we consumers will somehow overlook that.
Many of the dirty effin hippies have managed to accumulate wealth through savvy investments that support the very notions they once expulsed, but traded for monetary security by investing in stocks, bonds, funds, futures, and equities...those very conglomerates that are so injurious to the planet and the consumers they "serve". Most of us Americans and first-world citizens want our piece of the cake, but are ever so willing to avoid the issue of sharing our less-than wealth with our less fortunate global citizens in third-world countries. We feel we are already getting the short end of the stick, so why make it shorter by sharing and equalizing?!
Is it coincidence that the video cover is of the old-style hippy Volkswagen? Volkswagen (and Audi, Porsches) is in deep doo-doo currently for its emissions' scandal. What was once the vehicle, the peoples' vehicle, choice of the effin hippies is now embroiled in consumer fraud. Just about every major corporation has or is involved in some form of aberrant consumer behavior, tax avoidance, employee-contractor malfeasance, or environmental degradation. A majority of Americans and global population is employed by these behemoths that we love to hate...most of us consign services and purchases to these egregious outfits, and many have them in their 401K portfolios.
A majority of Americans have willingly allowed our government to run a muck in the name of national and personal security. According to Benjamin, we get what we give: "Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither."
I can only speak for Americans and few of us care enough to take action toward any issue. We are a bunch of whiny consumers, easily manipulated, self-interested, and placated by some of the most ridiculous indulgences. There are those that care, but not in sufficient numbers to cause an effect.
mike ~ LOL! It's no laughing matter, I know but reading your comment made me think of a court scene, with you as a sort of Witness for the Prosecution. :-)
I don't do victim-think, but I do "get" what you're saying.
It was inevitable that some hippies would, eventually, slide across into the dark side - human nature being what it is. Still, they were right when they were right (or should that be left!?)
Hmmm - yes, good point - I hadn't perceived the irony of that Volkswagen "bug" covered in hippie decor on the video's first screen, vis-a-vis the current scandal faced by Volkswagen and others.
I try to always side with "The People", as you no doubt will have gathered, and I dare say there's some kind of argument to be made on their behalf here, against your accusations, but it'd take a better brain than mine to put it forward. I've commented to Anyjazz, many times, how shocked I am that the people of the US had never risen up with regard to the terrible privatised health care situation here (prior to ACA, which is only a partial help anyway).
Coming from a country that's around the size of a biggish US state, it has always amazed me that this vast country could be effectively run at all by a central government, yet that's what is needed, at least in regard to issues concerning health care, welfare, defence and suchlike - otherwise what's the point of being "United" at all? The size of the country has made it that much harder for "The People" to come together in large enough numbers for any country-wide protest....until the coming of the internet, that is, but that's a coming together of communal minds, not bodies. Still, it's a start.
***************
By the way, I hadn't noticed your comment of a few days ago about your blood test results - am so pleased all was well. I'd not have found that comment if it weren't for a daft, pre-coffee finger fumble early this morning when I accidentally sent the week's comments into the spam folder, then had to fish them out again, individually! LOL! Also, I must wish you Many, Many Happy Returns before I forget - am not sure of the day but it's around now, I know.
Thanks, Twilight! I can't say that I'm too enthused about gaining another year, except that I'm sturdy stuff. I've never disliked becoming older, but now that I'm this far into the ride, with miles behind me, I'm aware that the destination can't be too far away. Both parents made it into their 90s, so genetics may dictate, as long as I don't step into on-coming traffic. Nothing sad about it...it's actually exciting to me to have made it this far and not knowing when the bus door will open and I'm kicked-off...LOL. Could've happened years ago, so I'm glad for the extra scenery.
Your post today is reminiscent of my dirty hippy days! I once identified as such and eventually cast it aside for the more conservative rewards of corporate life. My first comment, above, is from first-hand knowledge. I'd still be there had "fate" not intervened in May, 2000, when transiting Uranus in Aquarius and transiting Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in Taurus set-up a grand square and pinged my sequence of semi-sextiles within my natal chart, forever changing my future. I'm satisfied with the sequence of events that I chose, but I'm often left chewing on the collapsed sticks that once supported it all. Also, as I mentioned yesterday, a Vedic astrology website stated that my Saturn period coincided with that collapse and would last a duration of about 15 years. I lost many material goods, but I gained much beyond the tangible. I'm pleased that I escaped the corporate world and became a less corrosive person in the process.
My solar return does appear appetizing this year. I have found that SRs may have some validity, but who knows?! As we've discussed, the many variables within astrology make finding correlations relatively easy...like finding a grain of sand at the beach or straw in a straw pile.
BTW - PBS' "The Brain", episode four airs tonight at 9 PM and are available online or on the Roku PBS channel. The series is excellent! Episode three got into free-will and how real is it. There are actually some scientific experiments investigating free-will and the results are surprising.
I agree, we are whiny and selfish.. as for the hippie ideas- they were good ones.
those kids grew into adults and when they did, they came to the realization that all the pure ideas wouldn't hold up to real life and their need to survive it.
PS_ yes Mike I read both articles you posted Friday evening ,, then I came back and asked you about brands as well as powder or pill form..
I am on day 3- 1000 mil tabs- 3 times a day.
mike (again) ~ Oh, but you're "no'but a lad yet" as they say in Yorkshire! That much further along the ride, as I am, the destination is somewhat nearer, but not yet in full focus (barring accidents). I think my old ancestral hardy rural-strength genes should be good for a bit longer, all things being equal - tornadoes and Universe willing of course!
:-)
Thanks for the heads-up about "The Brain" on PBS. I'm not sure anyjazz will think it his cup o'tea, but I'll try to remember to give it a whirl.
Sonny ~ Your comment brought to mind a quote of John Galsworthy:
"Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem"
:-)
Twilight ~ A lot of the "hippies" I grew up with as a child (they were older than me) ended up making quite a bit of money off of the same systems they once protested against!
Democrats, Republicans, even *some* of those claiming to be 'Socialists' (sorry Twilight, but Bernie comes to mind) participate in and profit from our capitalistic, plutocratic systems of greed and perpetual war.
As mike's already pointed out, most of us here in the U.S. profit in various ways too, myself included. It's much easier to point fingers at someone 'out there' than it is to look in the mirror.
Much as we love the *idea* of a more just and sustainable world, most of us are less willing to make the sacrifices it would take to get there, even the small ones. I understand how hard it is to give up many of the comforts, conveniences, sources of income and/or social support we've come to depend upon and take for granted.
Then too, some of us don't know and don't WANT to know about the ways in which we're all complicit. And some are in survival mode and don't have much of a choice, which is the way it's always been.
*************
Happy Birthday, mike.:) Is it tomorrow?
LB ~ Well, yes, accepted - up to a point, and only up to a point. What the hippies were saying back then though was, as the video states f***ing right. That's the point. What some of 'em did later on, and what most of us do now isn't the point of this post.
As I commented to mike, it's human nature and to be expected that some would slide in their ideals. I do not accept that Senator Sanders is a guilty one in that respect. If you are going to point out something in response, do please balance it with all the good he has done for ordinary Americans in his state and city over the years. He is the last one who could be accused of corporate-type greed.
LB - Thanks! Yes, tomorrow marks the day of entry (re-entry?!).
You mention that some (most) of the hippies grew-up and made $ off the same systems they protested. That was me. Once I graduated university, I set my sail toward a career and worked my way up the ladder of success. I suppose, in hind-sight, I was trying to satisfy an inferiority complex...and, hey, by the 1980s, hippies were SO out-moded! A very good, long-lost friend from my former hippy days contacted me when I was achieving the career peak...she was living on a commune and wanted to visit me in CA, about 1995. She quickly disconnected when I sent her my pager (remember those?) phone number along with my home and office phone numbers...LOL. Never heard from her again. I guess hippies can be judgmental, too.
Twilight ~ I believe what we DO (and NOT just on behalf of our own family/community/political party/city/state/country/tribe) is generally more important than what we say.
Most of us (and that includes elected members of government and even many corporations) have done good for someone somewhere, often at the expense of someone or something somewhere else.
If you or I buy a garment from a small local business that employs local workers and pays a descent living wage, BUT the garment was sewn by an exploited child-worker in a foreign country and is made from cotton grown using more exploited workers exposed to toxic pesticides and using short-sighted farming methods that destroy water, land and community, and then is shipped across the world using fossil fuels, polluting sea and air in the process . . . I'm helping someone, hurting someone/something else.
The same could be said about Bernie, who, while doing good for local workers in Burlington, appears to have sacrificed his former ideals when it came to unjust wars and their weapons.
One very telling example is given in the following excerpt from a SOCIALISTWORKER.org post:
"My first experience with Bernie came shortly after he was elected mayor, and I moved to Burlington partly on that basis. It came while I was participating in a Central American solidarity action at a General Electric Gatling Gun factory in the early 1980s in support of peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua against whom the machine guns mounted on helicopters were being used.
One would have expected, and I certainly did at the time, that Bernie--back then, much more of an "avowed socialist" than he is today--would have supported our civil disobedience protests to rid the "Peoples Republic of Burlington" from this odious human rights blot. Burlington had a sister city in Nicaragua.
But Bernie did not. Instead, I vividly remember Bernie standing arms-folded alongside the right-wing union officials from the factory and the Burlington Police Department as we were being arrested. He falsely insinuated that we were "anti-worker," and he refused to have any serious political dialogue with us activists. Bernie next made cozy with the cops and their union, who endorsed him in his future mayoral elections." http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/13/sanders-isnt-a-left-alternative
***
Twilight, I just performed a search on your site for Aquarian Phil Collins (January 30, 1951), but couldn't find anything. Some old, online photos have him looking like a hippy. He announced he was back and out of retirement in May this year, and I've been seeing internet blurbs regarding a change.org petition: "Petitioning United Nations/Phil Collins Must Be Stopped", https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-phil-collins-must-be-stopped?recruiter=40727672
This is obviously not a serious petition, but it probably will receive the required signatures. I wasn't aware that Phil Collins was so controversial until I viewed his Wiki page. I've always enjoyed his music along with Peter Gabriel and Genesis.
Many musicians from the hippy days found immense wealth concomitant with the fame.
mike ~ Those Virgo conjunctions (Venus-Mars-Jupiter) look interesting for your SR. I hope it's a good year for you and your furry family.:)
Thanks, Anonymous! Sun will be on the MC sextile Pluto, too. Moon sextile Mercury, but square Saturn, and opposed Neptune, boo hoo...LOL.
BTW Twilight, I'm not saying (nor do I think) Bernie is a terrible person. I just think his record speaks for itself. As president, his less desirable qualities would play out on a more significant scale.
mike ~ I'm anonymous. Don't know how that happened. So your SR is a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Moon sextile Mercury and Pluto (ruler of your Sun) sextile the MC/Sun seem promising!
LB - Yes, SR is relatively OK...several caveats...better than last year's!
OK, OK, you've convinced me to not vote for Bernie...I'm voting for Dr. Ben Carson...NOT...be careful what you wish for...LOL.
mike ~ Re Phil Collins - was never a fan so hadn't read anything about this. This is just a silly petition it seems - wanting to stop him and older rock stars from continuing their careers. (Pluto in Leo generation never want to give up!)
I took a quick look at his Wiki page - I wasn't aware he'd been in any way controversial - but then I wouldn't have known about it as his type of music wasn't my thing. I saw him in a film once, about The Great Train Robbery - he wasn't too bad in it from what I recall. Maybe there's a lot of professional jealousy involved.
LB ~ LB ~ I'd prefer to hear Sanders' side of that story too. But all I'm going to repeat is - none of this is what that YouTube video was about - the "dirty fuckin' hippies", though decried by many at the time, were proved right - that's all!
Twilight ~ Yes, some were *saying* all the right things back then, and, to be fair, *some* have followed through in their lifestyles and choices. I do understand the point of your post.
Hopefully you also understand my point, which is that it's more important how we walk our talk ~ though you may disagree.
LB ~ The hippies were instrumental in putting out ideas - sending them out into the ethers if you will, to hover around for decades. The fact that some individuals or groups didn't carry those ideas through is another topic. The hippies' ideas came back in another guise for another generation, with OWS (Occupy Wall Street), I believe the surge in support of Bernie Sanders campaign is another echo, re-dressed, re-arranged for current times.
I see your demands that we, in all circumstances, must always walk our talk as idealistic and admirable, but not capable of being adhered to on every level. We are human beings, not machines.
I prefer to try to see what some call "the big picture" in all of this. Ideas of the hippies, and even some of their predecessors didn't come to fruition, it wasn't time. OWS faded away - it wasn't time. You'll probably be pleased when (and if) Bernie Sanders' campaign falters. If it does it will tell us it wasn't time. Again. At the very least, though, he will have left more of a dent in what's possible than the hippies or OWS managed. If his campaign falters there will be an even stronger effort, by someone else at some time in the future. Not all will walk their talk, but as long as enough of them do - that'll be all that's needed. And eventually - it WILL be time.
Let's leave it there, please.
I'm pleased whenever people treat one another with awareness, respect and compassion; I'll take no particular pleasure in Bernie's campaign failing, *if* and when it does fail. I've said before I'm glad Bernie is bringing more attention to certain issues, though if elected, I *think* it unlikely he'd be much different (or more effective) than who we have now.
The problem with the "big picture" you refer to is that it's easy to overlook and dehumanize those we either can't relate to or don't see, like the "peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua" who had weapons aimed at them, weapons produced here in the US, in factories like the one in Burlington which Bernie supported and where ordinary Americans found employment.
Since Bernie is running for President and since your post was about how hippies got it right, it's fair to point out some of apparent contradictions in former peace-loving hippie, Bernie's, political ideals ~ such as his support of the UBER expensive military F-35 jets (designed to drop bombs in foreign countries), the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 and, more recently, Israel's attack on Gaza, among other examples.
There are a lot of folks who care about the world, Twilight. Folks who want change and are trying to live lives that make a difference ~ and who won't be voting for Bernie.
LB ~ I don't recall ever de-humanising or overlooking anyone, nor indicating that not voting for Bernie means a person doesn't care about the world.
Please, LB, as I've already asked, can we leave this topic now. We're going around in circles, your position has been made plain, as has mine, I hope.
This is a much more eloquent summary of the current malaise in society (and to a certain extent reflects Mike's opening comment)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDu3JdQ8Ow
JD ~ Thanks for the link. You know, I almost used the quote at the end of the video ("Be the change you wish to see in the world") in my own comment, but decided against it. Still, it's what I believe is most true about ourselves and our relationship to one another and the planet we live on.
It's what I meant by walking our talk, or *trying* to anyway.:)
JD ~ Thanks for the link. Alan Watts is a very good commentator on just about any topic.
This topic, though, is a scratchy one for me. We are human, we are what we are and we have evolved accordingly. Those apparently more enlightened will criticise continually and for ever, but this is the way our communal human nature works. Those who purport to advise are really hitting their heads against a brick wall. We are what we are and preaching to us to change will not change us, even though we can see what we're doing.
This is the conclusion I've reached now anyway. That being so, let us at least try to be happy while we can. If we make that change a change to being positive, being happy and enthusiastic and grateful for our lives, rather than scolding and criticising, it may be a change that could bring other changes we hadn't even thought of.
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