Tuesday, October 13, 2015

Wilson & McCartney - Similar Yet Different - Why?

Twenty years or so of the internet and access to astrology software means that there's not a lot that hasn't already been written about just about any facet of astrology. Most well-known individuals' natal charts have been dissected over and over again. It's not easy to be "fresh".

I encountered this problem again when discovering, for the first time, that two modern musical geniuses, Paul McCartney and Brian Wilson were born just 2 days apart.

We watched a DVD of the recent movie Love and Mercy, about The Beach Boys, and Brian Wilson in particular. The movie's focus is on Brian Wilson's mental and emotional states. Interesting enough to set me seeking his natal chart (it's available at astro.com). A note there states: Born 2 days after Paul McCartney.

Oh, thought I, comparison of those charts could make an interesting post, especially as Brian Wilson has suffered so severely mentally yet Paul McCartney seems like the most level-headed person in pop music. I find, of course, that such a comparison has been done already, by Victor Kahn:
Curious Events: The Astrology of Rock Music - The strange coincidences between The Beach Boys & The Beatles.
A dual natal chart is included there. It's a good article, but the author's astrological conclusion doesn't completely satisfy me.

Yes, Brian Wilson's Virgo Moon has a lot to answer for, regarding his self critical nature and constant striving after perfection, but that's not enough to convince me - there has to be more. The most glaringly obvious factor is that the two guys were born some 5000 miles apart, and almost certainly have different rising signs.

Astro.com gives an AA rating (= accurate) to their time of birth for Brian Wilson, putting it at 3.45 AM. Taurus is rising, ascendant angle at 27 degrees of that sign. Bells ring in my astro-head. The dreaded "demon" star, Algol! In 1942 Algol was less than 2 degrees from Brian Wilson's ascendant angle. Enough said! Paul McCartney's exact time of birth isn't known, but it's highly unlikely that he also had Taurus 27 on his ascendant angle.


mike said...

Astrology doesn't allow clones, even when born at the same time and location, and same mother! The difference with identical twins is typically placed on the movement of time between each birth, yielding ascendant variations. More recent (epi)genetic research into identical twins indicates that each twin has variations of environmental exposures to chemicals & biochemicals, or anything other than DNA (except for DNA damage) that influences the development. See the Wiki article for this discussion:

For nearly the same birthtimes like McCartney and Wilson, there's the old standby, the environment, which would include epigenetics, but is more directed toward the parental, other relationships, and life-experience associations.

A bit disturbing that Kahn's article (your link) would indicate that Wilson's Moon is square his Mercury, when in fact, his Moon position could be from about 9* to 21* Virgo, with his Mercury Rx at 17*35' Gemini. Yes, that range is in square aspect, but anywhere from very loose to exact, and unknown without a time of birth.

It is assumed that Paul McCartney has his mental and emotional act together, but there have been incidents and reports over the years that this may not be true. McCartney was reported to be very controlling while a member of the Beatles...and the Beatles were well-known for drug consumption. After the collapse of the band, McCartney was thought to have gone through some challenging emotional states:
"New Book Chronicles Paul McCartney’s Struggles with Drugs, Booze, and Post-Beatles Depression" https://www.yahoo.com/music/bp/book-chronicles-paul-mccartney-struggles-drugs-booze-post-222548725.html

McCartney and Wilson may be more similar mentally-emotionally than the difference your post alludes.

mike (again) said...

I doubt that you have much interest, but should you, here is a 13 minute, NOVA ScienceNow presentation about epigenetics using twins as a model:

Twilight said...

mike ~ Yes - I do realise astrology doesn't allow clones, but that's really not what the post is about. Wilson and McCartney wouldn't be anywhere near clone category anyway, being born 2 days and 5000 miles apart. This post was a very quickly drafted reaction after watching "Love and Mercy", then looking at Wilson's chart and the note at astro.com that McCartney's birth date was so close, then doing a quick search to find out whether anyone had compared the astrology. The linked post was the first one I found - didn't notice any others in my quick search.

Brian Wilson's mental disturbances were quite extreme, as the film "Love and Mercy" showed. They were mis-diagnosed and exacerbated by the controlling psychologist Eugene Landy who, it is recorded, held sway over Brian Wilson for many years. So there's more to this story than appears in my brief post which looks at the Wilson/McCartney thing from a very, very wide angle.

McCartney, along with just about every other successful pop star of his time no doubt had a few drug and emotional issues - that went with the territory. Brian Wilson's problems were way beyond that - though maybe wouldn't have been as severe if not for the input of Eugene Landy. (Perhaps what's needed is a comparison of Wilson's and Landy's charts.)

The article on Wilson and McCartney to which I linked has flaws, yes, the biggest is in using a questionable time of birth for McCartney and a 12 noon time for Wilson, when there is a reliable time quoted for Wilson at Astro.com, as I've mentioned in the post. Using that time threw up Wilson's 27 Taurus ascendant which, for me rang bells. That's really all I was saying.

(again) ~ I watched the video, thanks - it's interesting to me (why wouldn't it be?)
I shall remember, now, that genetics are DNA hardware and epigenetics are like the "software".

LB said...

" . . . but that's not enough to convince me - there has to be more."

Twilight ~ I think the explanation you're looking for lies beyond astrology, science, genes, DNA, etc. and instead speaks to something far more intangible and unknowable, something that can't be measured or predicted ~ involving choice, opportunity, fate, free-will, grace.

Maybe those of us born close together -even on the same day and time (twins)- are different from one another simply because each of us is a **unique soul** on our own individual and unique spiritual journey. Unlike cake recipes or robots, we have souls, spirits, minds and hearts.

While astrology can be a *very* useful tool, and though folks born around the same time often share similar qualities, proclivities or challenges, I don't think astrology, practiced as a 'science', can ever really know someone without actually knowing them, except possibly in retrospect. I take guesses too, use my intuition, but never claim to know.:)

Twilight said...

LB ~ Thanks for your input. I don't disagree with anything you've written.

I think my initial intention, in quickly scribbling this post, was to "celebrate" the fact that astrology is showing itself working in these two individuals at least on their professional success and indisputable talent in the same direction. Yet their differences seemed pronounced outside of that, and I was trying, albeit quickly and sketchily, to discover whether astrology also indicated that. I am still of the opinion that Algol on Wilson's ascendant represents the very bad influence psychologist Landy had over him for so long, whereas McCartney, far as we know, had no such destructive astro- "influence".

But, as already said, I don't disagree with your points - the two ideas can surely go hand in hand.

LB said...

Well said, Twilight.:) And point taken about Algol on Brian Wilson's ascendant, though someone else born at the same time and on the same day (and with Algol there), might have lived a different life.

As an aside, have you ever looked on Wikipedia for any well-known folks born on the same day/year as you? It's interesting.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Indeed - others born with that same ascendant degree and chart as Wilson's would have lived very different lives, and experienced Algol's presence in different ways - maybe, I hope, in less destructive mode. Some modern astrologers have decided that the star's presence can indicate a particularly passionate/dedicated emotional side as it's less scary facet.

I did search for my astrological twin years ago, yes, but at Astrodienst. I found one (born in the USA though) and have written about him. He was a real-life twin himself, and has now died, though his twin is still around I think. There are some posts mentioning the deceased twin - here's the first, from 2006:


I have a male cousin who was born 2 or 3 days before me and within 20 miles of each other too. We're not much alike, in general, other than our working life was spent (mainly) in governmental or local authority environments. I have known him a little in later life, and have always been much more aware of him than of my deceased cousin from yesterday's post.

Do you have an astro-twin (ish)?

Sonny G said...

as always, astrology Indicates it never dictates:)

I agree, environment and past life karma that needs to be worked on play as much a part as anything else in this life.
add to that ALL we will never know while in this state of existence. More mysteries than we can imagine.

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ Yep! “What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean.” ― Isaac Newton.

LB said...

Twilight ~ Keeping in mind I was born close to a total solar eclipse (North Node conjunct Sun/Venus), I share a birthday (day/year) with a bunch of well-known folks, all of them famous for their artistic or athletic abilities.

It's their inner worlds I wonder about.

LB said...

Wow, Twilight ~ your astro-twin, W. Brugh Joy, is obviously a very bright guy with some fascinating and unusual ideas. I'm gonna try and find one of his books at the library, hopefully to better understand what it is he's trying to say.

Is it that our unique (personal) unconscious is comprised of more personalities than just the one 'self' we consciously identify with? I understand he's not talking about energies in the Jungian sense (archetypes, anima, animus, shadows), but he also doesn't mention what for me, seems like the other obvious explanation, which is reincarnation. I'm curious!

I do like what he says about becoming more conscious and how shifts in consciousness can usher in healing. Not surprising, his Aquarius Sun uses words like "internal community".


Germaine Greer is another intellectual writer with a strong voice. Weird about the other, less likely childbirth similarity.:0

Twilight said...

LB ~ I bought one of B. Joy's books, long time ago, but just didn't really get into it - you might do better than I did though. He was a straightforward doctor originally.
His twin is, or was, a teacher I seem to recall, and nowhere near as "far out" lol! I might have more in common with him. :-)