Wednesday, January 15, 2014

Goddess of Prophecy and More

Another day, another Roman festival - how they loved their festivals! 15 January, in Ancient Rome, marked the second of two festivals honoring the goddess of prophecy, Carmenta, first day of Carmentalia was 11th January. Carmenta, as well as being a prophetess was goddess of childbirth and midwifery. There was originally one Carmenta worshipped by the "flamines," her priests. Later there were said to be many Carmentes, female deities who appeared to assist women in labor and to tell the fortune of the newborn child. Romans made offerings of rice to the goddess and feasted on cream-filled pastries shaped like male and female genitalia or in triangle-shape filled with raspberry jam.(Link)

Carmenta (known as Nicostrata to the Greeks) was famous for chanting her prophecies in verse.She is also credited with naming Rome's Palatine Hill and in a vision predicted it would be the future site of the Roman Empire. She laid the city's first stone, instituted a system of laws for the surrounding region, and invented the Latin alphabet and language. Quite a gal!

Still on the topic of prophecy and returning to the book from which I quoted yesterday C.E.O. Carter's Encyclopedia of Psychological Astrology:
It is probable that such prophecy as may truly be the result of inspiration or revelation from higher entities would be shown horoscopically by a strong 9th house, and by Jupiter and Neptune, as well as sometimes Uranus. Such cases, however, are rare, and their possibility is admitted by comparatively few at the present day. Natives of watery signs and also Sagittarius are prone to have presentiments, but it is probable that in most cases these are purely fanciful.

Astrological prophecy, properly so called, has nothing to do with such methods, but depends upon the interpretation of present and future influences mathematically obtained and intellectually apprehended. At the same time it is undeniable that many astrologers, and particularly those with strong Jupiter 9th house influences, develop an intuitive accuracy of judgment that may in time act so promptly and surely that it may appear to partake of the nature of inspiration.

On the other hand, those in whose horoscopes Mercury and Jupiter are afflicted should be cautious in making forecasts, especially when under bad directions to these planets.

Flicking quickly through Astrotheme's lists of well-known people with Jupiter (and other planets) in 9th house, a few well-known astrologers emerged:

Patrick Walker (Jupiter Neptune, Mercury in 9th)
Alan Oken (Jupiter and Pluto in 9th)
Julia Parker (Mercury, Jupiter and Neptune in 9th)
Jonathan Cainer (Jupiter in 9th + Sun in Sagittarius)

I have a lonely Jupiter in 9th, as it happens, but all I can confidently prophecy is that there'll be another anniversary of an Ancient Roman festival along soon.


mike said...

I'd raise a cannoli to my mouth in honor of Carmenta, if only I could find one here in the deep south! Oh how I love a good cannoli. I became spoiled when I lived in Boston and had access to Boston's Italian neighborhood...particularly Mike's Italian Bakery (

I used to read Patrick Walker's astrology forecasts in Vanity Fair. He was indeed talented, even with the sun-sign-astrology columns that most astrologers detest for their generalities. He had a way with words, too, which enhanced his columns.

As we've discussed in your previous posts, there are indeed accurate generalities that can be forecast, such as is occurring now with the Uranus-Pluto square affecting the globe, with its inherent tensions. It's the fine tuning that seems difficult and potentially errant.

I can't accurately forecast for myself, but I can certainly understand astrological correlations to occurrences of events when I view my life retrospectively. This appears to be cheating by astrological outsiders-deniers, but I think these reviews are what make a seasoned astrologer.

I've had events in my life that do not correspond to any particular transit to my natal chart, but will when I consider progressions, solar returns, or mid-points. Is this stretching astrology to fit the action?

I've had a number of periods in my life that I'm a bit thankful I didn't know about in advance...those eras were difficult and not preventable, so I wouldn't want to know in advance! I've had a couple of seemingly good luck situations that, in the long run were anything but, and a couple of bad luck situations that were quite positive in the long run. Who knows what a professional astrologer would have forecast for those events???!!! Most people want to know about MONEY, ROMANCE, and HEALTH...there can be much ambiguity surrounding those three factors...material versus spiritual assessments.

mike (again) said...

P.S. - maybe I'm behind the times, but some astrologers are utilizing as many asteroids as they can find...LOL. One prominent astrologer uses twelve asteroids. I've not been comfortable even using one of the first asteroids used in astrology, Chiron.

Twilight said...

mike ~ Cannoli eh? "A language (or sweetmeat) that the stranger does not know". :-) I ought to know, but I don't recall ever tasting one of those when in Italy (or anywhere else). Must've been slimming at the time. They do sound delish though! Carmenta will have to make do with an English muffin toasted with some sliced tomatoes on top from me. ;-)

Yes, P. Walker was a very well-respected, even though Sun sign, astrologer, as is Jonathan Cainer. I've followed the latter (for entertainment only, as they say) from his first appearances in newsprint. Uncannily correct he is, a lot of the time.

Retrospective reviews of events in one's life is the only way we have of validating astrological principles - if anyone thinks that is cheating, then they are on the wrong page entirely!

I do consider progressions, directions solar returns etc etc etc as a means of stretching to fit...but that's just me. If it works for anyone else - fair enough. I like to stay clear and simple and sure - or not. If it's "not" I'll accept that as well - but so far it never has been "not".

I've got past the stage where I want to know my own future - or how much there is of it left. I guess most older people reach that stage. I'm happy to let things unfold as they must, and deal with whatever comes, as it happens. I'll keep an eye on transits in general, but without any thought of "what can this mean for me?" Not easy to do, but I shall try.

Asteroids, as used, are another "stretching" item for me, but might provide an interesting study outside of traditional astrology. There's enough complexity in straight astrology without adding more, IMO. :-)

LB said...

Twilight ~ Carmenta sounds a bit like Hekate, don't you think? When I was much younger and studying mythology, I never realized how important a role these goddesses (and gods) played in terms of understanding universal archetypes and our own psyches.

Though it probably wouldn't be considered prophecy in the strictest sense of the word, throughout my life I've occasionally received information, glimpses of things to come. Usually during twilight sleep, that time when we're between worlds and more open in our awareness. Often, it's as if someone is speaking to me, other times I receive information through symbols. And no need to worry, so far I'm perfectly sane with no apparent symptoms of schizophrenia.:)

My 3rd house Jupiter (in Scorpio) is conjunct both Neptune and Mercury, with Scorpio's co-rulers, Pluto and Mars, placed in the 12th and 9th houses, respectively.

Speaking of other types of charts, it was interesting when I started looking at Draconic charts (the layer beneath) - in mine, my natal 3rd house Jupiter ends up in the 9th as my Draconic Mars.

I used to work with schizophrenic kids and some of the things that popped out of their mouths were amazing. One young man in particular knew things he had no way of knowing - about the past, present, future. Apparently members of his mother's church (Baptist, I think) recognized his gifts and considered him 'special', which he was.:) Would've loved to have done his chart. In spite of all the challenges he faced, he was definitely a very sensitive young man who was very tuned-in!

Gifts of prophecy aside, I don't think it takes a special gift to know our world is in for some big changes coming up, due in part to the many "progress traps" (and inequities) we've created.

Twilight said...

LB ~ I had to check via Google - so many gods and goddesses, so litle time! Yes, there are similarities between Carmenta and Hekate. It seems Hekate was more into witchcraft and magic generally, whereas Carmenta specialised in prophecy with her link to motherhood and children a close second. Both seem to have been linked to the Moon though (according to some sources anyway).
Nothing's ever seems crystal clear in the case of goddesses and gods and how they morphed in moves between Chaldea, Greece, Rome. It's usually something of a mix and match, or miss and match effect. :-)

Interesting that you mention that between sleep and waking time.
I've found sometimes that if there was something I'd been puzzling over or trying to improve in a blog post the previous day, an idea would pop up at that 'tween time in the morning and point me towards an amendment I need to make or an idea for improvement of some kind.
I've noticed this happens quite a lot, even when I'm not thinking about the topic involved at all.
I don't see this as in the realms of prophecy, but some trick of the mind which could possibly be some strange superficial effect from the same source as prophecy.

There's so much about the human mind still not understood. Maybe we'll always be incapable of understanding it - and maybe it'll be best it things do stay that way. It would not be a good thing for the darker elements of government or powers that be to know everything - especially about things they might find use of for dark reasons.