Wednesday, October 08, 2014

Kaarl Sarp

While searching for information for a future post I came across mention of Kaal Sarpa Yoga. It comes from vedic astrology. Basically, it occurs in a natal chart when all the traditional planets (which excludes Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) lie between the north and south Nodes of the Moon, then Kaal Sarp or Kala Sarpa (the name varies from source to source) comes into play.
Wikipedia has a fairly clear explanation.

I'm not sure whether to take its interpretations/ predictions with a pinch or two of salt, as I do with most ancient interpretations relating to the Fixed Stars, or whether to consider Kaal Sarp more seriously.

In my own natal chart all traditional planets lie between Moon's north and south nodes, aka Rahu and Ketu. Only Pluto and Neptune lie outside that span. I have noted, and there's a post about it somewhere, that some of the important events of my life have coincided with times when the Moon's nodes are in natal position or directly opposite that, or, sometimes in line with the vertex or opposite.

As Wiki also tells us, there are "different types of Kala sarpa yogas. Since Rahu and Ketu are placed at 180° to one another, they can form twelve different types of Kala sarpa yogas." The different types depend upon house position. I'm not sure how nearly house positions translate from vedic to western astrology. If they are more or less the same, Moon's node positions in my chart are: north node in 5th in Scorpio, south node in 11th in Taurus. That combination = something called Padma Kalasarpa Yoga.

Oh my! Most of the interpretation doesn't fit, the only direct hits are "no progeny" and "death in a foreign land" (but not yet!!) Suffering will be up to 48 years... okay, I'm in the clear now then, and though I've had a few ups and downs I haven't suffered unduly. I did have to undergo a major operation (hysterectomy) at age 46, which sort of ties in with north node in 5th house (Scorpio). South node is conjunct Uranus, maybe that has significance too.

However, perhaps it's unwise to mix eastern with western astrology. Taking one stray concept and attaching it to an entirely different "system" is likely not to be recommended. Any thoughts on that, or on Kaal Sarp generally ?


mikr said...

From your Wiki link:
"Surprisingly none of the ancient Hindu astrological texts ever mention about this KSY (Kaala-Sarpa Yoga). The first mentions were seen only from 20th century.

... Many astrologers think KSY is a modern invention and do not believe in it."

Vedic astrology utilizes sidereal astrology, so your house positions would stay the same, but the signs may change...subtract 23* from planetary signs and the signs on the house cusp positions [If you have a 15* Cancer ascendant in tropical, you have a 22* Gemini ascendant in sidereal. A 7* Aquarius tropical Sun becomes a 14* sidereal Capricorn.] You will still have KSY in sidereal, but probably involving different signs.

I have a bucket-type of natal chart, with Jupiter as the handle, so I don't have this KSY. I have the reverse of you, with S Node in 5th and N Node in 11th...Saturn conjunct S Node.

I've noticed that many of the early 20th century astrologers emphasized the Nodes, but not mid-century, with a return to Nodal emphasis in the 1990s onward. The interpretation of the Nodes has always been fuzzy, with too much emphasis on karma, reincarnation, and destiny, which may contain some truth, but that notion removes it from tangible practicality.

From my own interpretation of my Nodal placement by house, and now having many more years on Earth, I can understand that I have a more comfortable feel for 5th house characteristics and a disdain for 11th house characteristics (Leo-Aquarius 5th-11th house axis). I don't favor groups, large populations, or social connectivity, yet I have a strong interest through observing those interactions.

Because the Nodes are reflective of the Sun-Moon ecliptic intersection, I believe the Nodes indicate how to better integrate the conscious with the subconscious, wherever one's Moon is by sign and house. I don't think that it's particularly detrimental to pander to the S Node, though most astrologers disagree. I think both Nodes work as "wild cards" in one's life, somewhat like being dealt the Joker in a hand of's little ironies, synchronicity, or quinkydinks. They work in unison, so what happens to one by aspect, happens to the other. Most astrologers will advise one to focus on developing the N Node, but I feel the two are inseparable and I don't think it's possible to consciously focus on the's the stuff of bridging the consciousness through subconscious patterns...the stuff of intuition, dreams, quirky happenings. We can learn a lot from our dreams...intuition can often over-ride our thinking, if we allow and develop it...odd incidents in life can expand our understanding of reality and change our direction.

Twilight said...

mike ~ Thanks for your thoughts on this and the "translation" western/vedic.

The more I've thought about Kaal Sarp, since writing this post, the more I'm tending to agree with
"Many astrologers think KSY is a modern invention and do not believe in it."

It is one of many pieces of astro-lore that remind me of aspects of a complex board game.

The Moon's nodes and their movements, as I see it, define yet another type of life-cycle, just as Saturn Returns define a better known one.

I see the Moon's nodes, individually, as sensitive points on the chart, no more than that. I can't be doing with some of the embroidery that has been placed upon them by certain professionals.

The fact that planets in an individual's natal chart all fall within the span of the Moon's Nodes may or may not carry significance. I'd place more reliance on the planets, signs and aspects between the planets, and transits to them, as well as to any planets outside the nodes' span.

I sense little to revere in the almost always dire predictions of vedic astrologers, which I suspect were originally a ploy to assert control of, and fear in, their clients. A dastardly plan!

Still, it's interesting to put these things to the test. For me, this one failed the test. I can account for stuff that has happened in my life quite easily without the aid of Kaal Sarp.

LB said...

Your post is interesting, Twilight. I know a teeny bit about Vedic but had never heard of Kaarl Sarp. Today's been busy - when I have more time I plan on reading more carefully and checking out the link.

Anything to do with the Nodes has my attention.:)

Twilight said...

LB ~ Do let us know your conclusion in due course.

Moon's nodes are still an enigma, even after so many astrologers of all strains, over many years, have had their way with them.

LB said...

Sometimes I think I have a handle on the deeper significance of my own Nodal placements, and sometimes not so much!

In Vedic astrology Rahu (the North Node) is said to be constantly hungry, hard to satisfy and enamored by worldly illusions, whereas Ketu (the South Node) leads to truth and enlightenment - though we're also meant to somehow integrate the best of both.

Though I still go back and forth (ask me tomorrow and I may feel differently!), more and more this interpretation seems to make the most sense. It also fits with my own past life memories.:0

If I had to choose between being an artist (NN-2H) and a spiritual healer (SN-8H), most days I'd choose the second option, though ideally I'd like to do both, but more peacefully and courageously - without my former argumentative streak (Aries SN) or superficial materialistic inclinations (Libra NN).

I definitely think *both* ends of the Nodal axis help tell the story of our past and of any previous lifetimes. Also rulers of the Nodes, their placements and aspects.

I found this link which explains in greater detail:

Twilight said...

LB ~ Thanks for your thoughts on this subject - always welcome. I shall read the link you've provided in the morning.