Thursday, March 06, 2014

Wishful Thinking... Astrologically

I have a book by astrologer Ivy M. Goldstein-Jacobson, Here and There in Astrology,    first published in 1961. It contains all manner of astrological tid-bits which provide food for thought. In the Introduction the author says that the first part of the book is "designed to give the student of astrology a new, different and much simpler approach to his work with natal charts...."

How much validity to attach to the method described below under the heading What You Want and Whether You Get It in Part I of the book, is up to the individual. While I understand the thinking behind it, I do feel a tad uncomfortable with it. At times astrology can be made to seem something akin to a board game. Best way to assess this particular proposal of Ms Goldstein-Jacobson is the old "suck it and see" method!

Here's an excerpt from What you want and whether you get it, with some exact quotes mixed with shortened versions, or clarifications, in my own words.

Mrs Jacobson explains, with regard to hopes and wishes, it is to the 11th house in a natal chart we should first look, this denotes what is wanted. Whether it is achieved is shown by the planet ruling the sign on the cusp of the 11th house. "Be sure to note the distinction we make here" said Mrs. Jacobson. An intercepted sign within the 11th house will denote a secondary, less important desire, often held in abeyance due to circumstances over which the native has little control. It might also denote a future desire.

Mrs Jacobson goes on to describe in which direction Fire, Air, Water or Earth signs on the cusp of 11th house will be likely to direct hopes and wishes.

Briefly: Fire basically wishes for spiritual things or whatever is creative or touches the heart and soul. (Fire signs = Aries, Leo, Sagittarius)

Earth, practical and material things, roots, future security.
(Earth signs = Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn)

Air, whatever is scientific, intellectual, these signs are diffuse having "only a light hold on what they want when they get it.....they desire to spread their knowledge, they are teachers". (Air signs = Gemini, Libra, Aquarius)

sign on the cusp of the 11th - these need to satisfy their extra sensory perception through deep understanding of the mystical, whatever appeals to the imagination and emotions. (Water signs = Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces).

An intercepted sign adds its element characteristics. (Intercepted signs occur when a whole sign is contained within a house, that sign isn't found on any house cusp. This only happens in unequal house systems - i.e. all systems other than the equal house system).
Mrs Jacobson then tells us that the sign on the 11th cusp and that of any intercepted sign may be ruled by more than one planet. We must look to the houses where these are placed to find out in which department of life the hopes and wishes are being sought...."the more houses involved, the more diversified the desires".

The next thing to note is the relationship of such houses to the 11th house itself, square (90 degrees), trine (120*), opposite (180*), etc. this will show whether the 11th cusp ruler will "find conditions easy to handle or not, in gaining his hopes".

5th opposes 11th - your circumstances involve opposition and non-cooperation, success is difficult. An opposition represents "anything that is as far from you at birth as possible, such as marriage for example - you have to grow up before you can attain it. On the other hand an opposition is like a full moon lighting whatever is before are aware what you have to face in life. You always have to break a bond to overcome opposition.....dearest wish often comes true late in life".

4th and 6th are quincunx the 11th Circumstances have to undergo radical reorganisation before whishes can be attained. Quincunx can indicate that you may need to pay another's debts, or put out money for support, etc. ("The quincunx is basically the distance from the ascendant to the 6th and from 8th to ascendant"). Discrimination needed in deciding what it is you want the most.

3rd and 7th are trine the 11th - Happy circumstances make it easy to attain one's wishes through family or strangers, or by moving home or country ("because the original measurement of the trine falls between ascendant and 5th and 9th houses"). This is the luckiest aspect of all.

2nd and 8th are square the 11th
, putting obstacles in your way due frequently to financial circumstances. ("Squares make you go to extremes of effort since they are basically the distance between ascendant and 4th or 10th.") Obstacles may be due to family/parental factors, they being unable to provide what you need, especially in childhood.

1st and 9th sextile 11th. "Opportunities like the postman will always knock twice affording excellent chances of success through own effort or that of people you talk to, since the sextile is basically the distance from ascendant to 3rd and from 11th itself."

10th and 12th are semi-sextile to the 11th. Circumstances favour gaining some hopes and wishes, but not as easily as via the sextile. ("Semi-sextile is basically the distance between ascendant and 2nd or 12th"). You may find you have only half a chance due to past mistakes.

The 11th may be said to conjunct itself, and when the ruler of the 11th is there it means that circumstances are with you: your hopes and wishes are within easy grasp. Friends are there when needed.

There are other details, covering mutual reception, retrograde and stationary planets: interpretations for these are fairly easy to guess. 

Using the Placidus house system,I have Aries on the 11th cusp natally, with Taurus intercepted in 11th house. Mars, ruler of Aries lies in 5th (opposing), Venus ruler of Taurus lies in 6th(quincunx). This method gives a reasonably accurate result, for me.


mike said...

I would not describe G-H's explanation of the 11th house as anything extraordinary, as it's a fairly typical over-view presented by most astrologers. As you state here and we have discussed previously, the house system utilized can make a difference in determining the sign and degree of that cusp. I'm in agreement with G-H's presentation and there's plenty of additional detail to add, if one searches for the information online or in reference books.

The 11th house obviously has the Aquarius quality and that house is co-ruled by Saturn and Uranus. So, both the sign ruler(s) and the house ruler(s) should be examined. Other keywords for the 11th house is individuation, goals, groups, friends, and assessment and attainment of that person's participation in collective consciousness...our outer expressions of what makes us unique.

I know that you are providing a very brief summation of her book here and I've not read the book, so I have no idea to what extent she delves into "what you want and whether you get it". The Moon's Nodes will greatly assist in this determination, too. The South Node by sign and house indicates areas in life the individual is inherently attracted toward with ease and comfort, but a distraction toward accomplishing an advanced agenda; the North Node provides the essential requisites for the individual's advancement through effort and challenge, and is usually a dumb-note to that person, but readily recognized over time as a thematic in life.

And I'm sure that you would agree, Twilight, that all natal and transiting planets provide the template for this topic. Moon, Venus and Mars by sign and house are very indicative of this thematic, too.

I read the link for G-H and it mentions her self-publishing. Reminded me of another female astrologer from that same generation, Marguerite Carter. Carter provided to the masses inexpensive, self-published, natal chart interpretations of the "assembly line style"...collating generic pages of astro information to create a final product to mimic the natal chart, eg, "Cancer Ascendant" page, with "Sun in Aquarius, 8th House" page, with "Saturn in Aries, 11th House" page, etc. She was the first to provide this streamlined method of interpretation at a very reasonable price.

Another favorite of mine is Isabel Hickey. She provides for the 11th house:
Goals and objectives
Social relationships
Hopes, wishes, projects, and ambitions

Afflicted 11th = work harder to attain outer level satisfaction.
5th & 8th houses are index to personal and emotional desires.
9th & 11th houses indicate higher levels of mind and emotion.
11th house ruler stronger than ruler of 7th house, person's friends-helpers are stronger than enemies.

mike (again) said...

An interesting related offshoot of this topic is sexual wants and desires, as Hickey stated about the 5th-8th houses involved in personal and emotional (sexual?) desire. Role playing, kink, and fetish activities are probably fairly common place, but have been the undoing of many high-level individuals. I think that the 11th house is highly related to the 5th and 8th...perhaps the 5th (opposed the 11th) and 8th (square the 11th) are indicative of possible intrinsic aberrations of the 11th house wants and desires. The 3rd house is perhaps in this mix, too, with its thinking and mental visualization qualities.

mike (again) said...

Re last comment...a tad more pondering would lead me to believe that the aberration would be in the grand cross of the 5th-11th, 2nd-8th. The 2nd, 5th, and 8th houses and signs would indicate possible difficulties with the expression of the 11th. Consequently, the 3rd and 7th would indicate ease of expression.

LB said...

Twilight ~ Thanks! I actually enjoy and appreciate these types of posts, for many of the same reasons I enjoy learning about other astrological influences - such as progressions, draconic charts, the Moon's Nodes, asteroids, midpoints, fixed stars, sabian symbols, BLACK MOON LILITH, etc., etc.

I'm not an astrologer so it's always exciting for me to discover some new way of observing. So far, I've found almost everything I've encountered to be valid and worth exploring. I've also noticed recurring themes in my own chart(s), different ways of saying the same thing.

In my own chart, my 5th house Aquarius Moon (receiving both challenging and easy aspects) opposes my Cancer-ruled 11th house. In keeping with the interpretation of a water-ruled house, I'd say my spiritual and ethical inclinations definitely have a mystical quality. In a way, this particular arrangement could represent a kind of mutual-reception, I think (?)

My husband (the sometimes Buddha) commented this morning how my words, thoughts and ideas (and hopes for a more just world) are my children - which is why I often feel compelled to share them on various blogs and in my face-to-face encounters with others. Also through my art. They're my legacy.

I'm not a fan of group-think. It stifles our Divine connection and makes if difficult to hear our inner voice. Probably why I'm not much of a joiner and do better when I remain on friendly terms with individual members of the group without expecting too much from them.

LB said...

mike ~ While your comments are informative (and also, for the most part, over my head!), what you don't say is how this works in your own chart.

I'm curious - does this simple method of interpretation not ring true for you in any way?

And how about you, Twilight? Does it make sense in your chart?

Twilight said...

mike ~ Thanks for all your observations. I realise that there's nothing new here for seasoned astrology buffs, but I hadn't before seen this set out in exactly the way Mrs Goldstein had done, for those with only very basic astrological knowledge.

As I mentioned I'm a tad uncomfortable with this myself, it's a step beyond what I like best about astrology. I find it a stretch, and making too much of 11th house, which most people cannot accurately define, and anyway there are various definitions depending on house system (as you point out too). That's just me being obtuse though. I know many astrology people enjoy stuff like this, so I posted it for interest of any passing reader.

Whether wishes are attained isn't as much dependent on astrology as in the passion and effort one is willing to put in to attain them. Characteristics needed for this can be seen in a natal chart, even ignoring houses completely I think. But again, that's just me being obtuse, I'm not too keen on houses period.

I am grateful for your input though - it adds a lot to the post. :-)

Twilight said...

LB ~ thanks for your input too. I'm glad you found it of interest. :-)

You mention "recurring themes" in your chart - yes I notice this often when I'm preparing posts with natal charts of people I'm writing about, and in my own too. I seem to remember an astrologer (female but can't remember her name) writing that unless a chart confirms a trait or even a prediction, in three ways or places it's not going to be reliable. (That's a garbled version of her words!)

The method set out does make some sense using my own chart - but then, cynical as I'm feeling on this, I wonder if I could find reasons for almost anything to fit, having lived a longish life with lots of wishes involved, some attained, some not.

LB said...

Twilight ~ Here's a link to Donna Cunningham's post on "The Rule of Three":

As I thought more about your post and the subject of wishes, I realized one of my greatest (and so far, unfulfilled) wishes has been to find a spiritual community of like-minded individuals who aren't afraid to walk the talk and challenge one another in all aspects of life. This theme shows up in my chart at least three times, if not more.

In reading your response to mike, you mention this post being of interest to those with very basic astrological knowledge - my understanding is probably a tad more advanced than that, though I've never been all that interested in the calculations or rational reasons as to *why* astrology works, being content with the Divine Mystery. It's also why I appreciate the many gifted astrologers who have done the groundwork for me.

mike (again) said...

Twilight, I didn't intend to down-play your post, but thought that I'd extend it a bit. I'm a sophomore astrologer...I dabble for my own pleasure and benefit. There was a time, probably 50 years ago, that I thought I had astrology all compartmentalized into tidy boxes of understanding. NOT! Over the years, I've explored, re-evaluated, and finally concluded that I can utilize astrology as a subjective tool, while I continue to compile little trinkets and jewels of information. I admire those astrologers that are locked-in to their particular method of natal chart erection with transits, maybe progressions, and the final makes the astrology easier to utilize.

There have been (and are) many acclaimed astrologers that have kept their study limited to the basics and others that consider all types of mechanisms. Whatever works for each, I suppose!

mike (again) said...

LB - Yes, this simplified method is suitable for my interpretation of a natal chart and is, indeed, what I initially perceive when I first glance the chart. Then I take it to deeper levels of consideration. I suppose an analogy would be viewing a potential house or apartment to rent...the first over-all impression, then the walk-through for a closer examination, then scrutinizing the details. I layer it! I ponder. I sleep on it. LOL.

As for my personal chart, I have a complex 5th house: Moon, Neptune, and the South Node conjunct Saturn all reside here...ruler of the 5th in the 6th. My 11th house of course has the North Node, with the ruler of the 11th in the 5th. The G-H method is cursory at best for interpreting my 5th and 11th houses. I should add that I have Mars in the 8th (almost on the 9th cusp) squaring the Nodes and Saturn. Ouch!

Twilight said...

LB ~ Ah1 Many thanks for the link - it's a good piece, not the one I recall but Donna cunningham does mention the astrologer I had in mind, Zipporah Dobyns. I bought her astrology course once upon a time.
I'll save the piece for future reference.

I'd gathered that you are more than a beginner, LB!

I'm of the opposite persuasion to you in that I DO (very badly) want to know the "why" of it all, and the "how" - even though I know I'm unlikely to ever be granted that particular wish. :-)

mike (again) said...

LB - correction:
Mars is in 7th house, but close to 8th house cusp. It squares North Node and South Node-Saturn. This error is perhaps my subliminal desire to have Mars on the 9th cusp...LOL.

Twilight said...

mike ~ I know -I did realise you were helping, mike! :-)

I'm not really any kind of astrologer - just my own kind. I grew up with the feeling that there was something there that I needed to know about....still don't know much that makes absolute sense to me, but I keep searching. I use it hardly at all in daily life, other than looking back on how things turned out, and how that relates to planets, signs, transits etc.
I don't find relating stuff in the present (apart from general mundane - Neptune in Pisces etc - stuff) to be at all helpful personally, though I realise that many others find it helpful for themselves.

As you say - whatever works for each person is right for them.

LB said...

mike ~ My natal Mars is in the 9th (though close to the MC) and I'm wondering what there is about this particular placement that makes it seem more desirable than your own 7th/8th house Mars?

I feel you as far as your Mars square Saturn and the Nodes. I have Mars (ruler of my 8th house South Node) square Pluto, while Venus, ruler of my North Node is opposite my South Node. I figure one of my lessons this lifetime is to learn how to use my words (Mars in Gemini) to make LOVE not war.:)

My sister also has Mars (conjunct Saturn) square Pluto and my husband has the Nodes (his North Node is conjunct Saturn) square Pluto. And we all have a bunch of Scorpio in our charts. Apparently us Mars-Pluto/Saturn-Pluto folks run in packs. Who else could handle the intensity?

Do you have a Gemini Ascendant, mike? I'm trying to remember and with your gift for words, know you must have something significant in Gemini!

mike (again) said...

LB - nothing overall more special with Mars in 9th...I was being facetious about my error...this post is about wants and desires.

Yes, an early Gemini ascendant. Mid-Virgo on the 5th. I have intercepted 6-12th houses, which skews the other houses.

A natal chart (person!) with a lot of "difficult" aspects can result in a very fine, seasoned, mellowed individual, if given time to overcome the obstacles, usually of the self. And of course, it can go the opposite direction, if lessons aren't incorporated...LOL.

From "Parkers' Astrology", by J.&D. Parker, pg 268: "The worst people have the best charts!"

“There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, it doesn't behoove any of us to speak evil of the rest of us” Edgar Cayce and-or G.W.Cooke

LB said...

mike ~ Oh well . . . I thought there might be something special about Mars in the 9th that I wasn't aware of.:)

So if the worst people have the best charts, maybe the best people have the worst ones, eh? I do think our challenges force us to grow . . . or at least the potential is there.