Friday, October 18, 2013


A little astrology as a change from politics today. The Sun will remain in Venus-ruled Libra for a few more days, Venus rules art and this is Arty-Farty Friday... here's an edited version of an old post of mine:

 Venus at Cardiff Castle, Wales, with symbols of Libra  & Taurus
People with Libra or Taurus strongly placed in their natal charts could be termed Venus people. 20th century astrologer, Carl Payne Tobey, compared such Venus people in his "Astrology Primer for the Millions". His assessments help us to see that although there are big differences between the two signs there are, sometimes, at their core, subtle similarities flowing from their traditional ruler. His words refer not only to those with Sun in Taurus or Libra, but anyone with natal Moon or several planets there, or with one of those signs on the ascendant. In my opinion, even if only Venus and/or Mercury are in Taurus or Libra in a natal chart, there will be quite a noticeable slice of the relevant sign contained in the personality. Also, if the ruler of one's Sun lies in one of these signs, some of Mr. Tobey's remarks will be likely to apply.

One thing I did find puzzling was that Mr Tobey considers that Libra lacks initiative, it's mentioned in various places in this piece. Most (or all) sources tell us that the cardinal signs (Libra is one of the four) are the initiators. I kind of understand what he's saying, but there might have been a better way to express it.

Below are some details from Carl Payne Tobey's book, with a few remarks from me.

Taurus and Libra are usually friendly and perhaps lethargic signs. They are strongly attracted to the opposite sex but are not particularly aggressive about it. They are more inclined to let things come to them. They prefer to attract people to themselves than run after them. Yet here we have some very romantic people. They react more than they initiate. (Note from me - that's odd, Libra being Cardinal sign). .......

These are not what we could call the nervous types, particularly Taurus is not. In fact it can be stoic. Neither sign is too easily aroused. They are more inclined to take things in their stride........they are much more calm than other signs. They appear more easily satisfied.

For all of this, and for all of these similarities, they are opposites in many respects.

Taurus is more material. It comes into the world to think of and deal with material things, but under certain conditions is capable of great transformations. It likes the land and likes it in big quantities.........Great wealth is often connected with this sign. These people often build up great power of one kind or another. They enjoy possessing great power, even if they never use it. Hitler was a Taurean.......we had a breakthrough of a Taurean into the metaphysical in Shakespeare. In the entertainment world Bing Crosby. (Note from me - the author is of a different era, so most of his examples are not very useful in today's world - I've omitted those which now seem obscure).

Taurean women, for the most part are inclined to be settled. They can get pretty attached to their homes and families. They can be steadying influences upon their husbands. They will enjoy entertaining at home, but they like good homes in which to entertain. (Note from me: we have to forgive Mr Tobey for his somewhat sexist outlook, he lived in a different era from ours).

Libra isn't so attached to material things above what they may need for comfort. They like nice things and appreciate quality. They would prefer to do their entertaining in a small way, with a select group of friends. They are less impressed by bigness. They don't concentrate on one thing the way a Taurean will. There is stubbornness in Taurus, but this is rare in Libra. When enthused, Taurus has a one-track mind, one object upon which it concentrates......Libra is not like that. It weighs both sides of any subject. It knows when something is off balance.

Except when the ruling planet, Venus, is in Scorpio, Libra can be a very just sign. It doesn't want to hurt anybody. There is a considerable difference in that Taurus believes in its own power even though it is a cautious sign, while Libra lacks self-confidence. You have to convince Libra how good it is. Try to tell Libra how good it is and it will appreciate it but probably won't believe it. Nevertheless the sign will feel good because you said so.

Too few Libra people develop their talents properly because of the lack of self-confidence. There is often good musical or artistic ability which is not developed. The sign likes all flattery even if it doesn't believe it.........there is an ability to understand abstract design, with the result that Libra can become a masterful mathematician, if the fear of mathematics as a subject is overcome.

It is apt to flatter Libra to be desired sexually, and the sign can be very affectionate.

While Taurus can be sluggish until it gets started or gets up its momentum, Libra is inclined to be lazy. The women enjoy sweets. (Note from me: I bet the men do too!) And if contentedly married they can become compulsive eaters. Then weight becomes a problem. Doctors investigating the subject find more Libra women afflicted with obesity than any other sign. They need a new interest of some kind to make them forget food and sweets. (Note from me:Oh, Mr Tobey - do I detect male chauvinism?)

With Libra the kidneys can be a weak spot, while with Taurus it is the throat.

Libra doesn't usually have the staying power of Taurus. ........Neither of these signs can ordinarily be called impulsive. They don't usually take the initiative (Note from me: even though Libra is a Cardinal sign?)......Yet many of the greatest military men have been born under these signs. They are not warriors. They do not want to fight, but if somebody is going to fight, they'll be likely to withdraw until they develop or assemble sufficient strength to win. U.S. Grant was a Taurean. (From me: Eisenhower was a Libran).

It is more difficult for Taurus to break away from the hereditary factor than for Libra to do so. There is basic family loyalty in Taurus, but if Libra doesn't like its relatives, it will look elsewhere for friends to take the place of relatives. It may show more interest in strangers than Taurus.....................

Neither of these signs can be considered as aggressive, nor can we call them ambitious signs. The Taureans who are ready to push themselves almost invariably have planets in Aries also (like Hitler), while Librans who will push themselves seem to have planets in Scorpio (Note from me: think Dennis Kucinich). Otherwise that push isn't there. Vitality and ambition are lacking.

These are not ordinarily to be considered signs of self-interest. They will usually step aside for others. It isn't in their nature to step on other people's toes. If they don't like a person, they will stay away from that person. They won't annoy him. When they can have harmonious associations they will be very cooperative. They are slow to anger, but don't push them too far. Particularly Taurus can be extremely violent if pushed too far.

When we come to the Mars-ruled combination of Aries and Scorpio you will see a marked difference in basic character structure. (From me: that'll be for another time!)

Venus photograph from Wikipedia.


mike said...

I agree with the bulk of your post, Twilight. I can add that my observation of Libras includes their ability to observe and study the "other", then employ passive-aggressive techniques to gain their cardinal objectives. This would compare to their opposite, Aries, that simply employs cardinal aggression without much consideration for the "other". A Libra utilizes diplomacy to work their magic.

The natal second and seventh houses and planet placements will add the Taurus and Libra qualities, too, as will be where Taurus and Libra fall in the various houses of the natal chart...but this is outside the scope of your post. A friend of mine has a late Capricorn rising with Moon in Pisces 2nd house; Mercury, Venus, and Sun in Taurus 4th interesting inter-play of reciprocal houses, planet rulers of houses, and planet sign rulers.

I know that you don't pay much attention to planetary-sign-dispositors, but I've found dispositors, particularly if a single planet is the sole dispositor, will dominate a natal chart.

Twilight said...

mike ~ I first posted a version of this in 2007, had been blogging on astrology for around a year. Since then, my feelings about astrology in general have - not exactly changed - but found a different level.

I'm convinced that "something" is going on, always have been, always will be, but the extent to which that "something" affects us, the intricate detail some astrologers get into, the magnification of some ideas and theories which really and truly ave never been put to any real test.... is where I have reservations. I still enjoy thinking on these things, and experimenting.

Considering Carl Payne Tobey's assessments again today I find myself wondering exactly where the similarities between Taurus and Libra do, truly, lie. For me it's in a single factor - the art(s) - music, painting, drawing, design,
both the practice and appreciation of these.

My Sun's ruler, Uranus was in Taurus when I was born, so I guess I fit with the appreciation of art, design and music part - I'm not talented in a practical artistic way but am usually drawn to those who are, and two of the closest relationships of my life have been with Sun Taurus people.

My experience with Libra Sun people has been mixed though. My mother had Sun in Libra, as had my first husband (short disastrous marriage). Although Aquarius and Libra are supposed to get along very well (Air signs) I had difficulties in both cases....possibly due to that Taurus element in my nature.
My Father was Aquarius and he and Libran Mum lasted 55 years together - he didn't have Uranus in Taurus, of course, but in Capricorn, another cardinal sign, less stubborn than Taurus, I guess. This is the first time I've come to realise that Taurus, although co-ruled by the same sign as Libra, could have been THE fly in the ointment of my relationships with Libra. I was able to mellow sufficiently to appreciate my mother's nature in later years, thank goodness. That'd never have happened with first husband though.

LB said...

Thanks for this Twilight. In my natal chart,my 2nd house has Libra on the cusp and contains (or *tries* to contain) my Ceres as well as my North Node-Venus-Sun in Libra. These last 3 are conjunct and conjoin my Neptune-Mercury-Jupiter in Scorpio in the 2nd and 3rd, forming a stellium. My progressed Ascendant is also in Libra and right now is *exactly* conjunct my natal Sun. There's a whole lot of Libra going on!

Generally speaking, I'm more proactive than reactive, though when that natal Mars-Pluto square of mine gets riled up -usually by some injustice, abuse of power or someone (including me) needing immediate help- I'm like the energizer bunny . . . I keep going and going and going.

Much as I love my creature comforts and beautiful, organized, PEACEFUL living environment (my weakness), knowing what I now know about *how* some of those comforts are produced, has significantly changed the way I consume - from the food I eat to the flowers I buy and the clothes I wear.

The 2nd house is a practical house concerned with our talents, gifts and values. With all that Libra, social justice is a big issue for me. Now when I shop, I think about the workers - in sweatshops and fields, underpaid, abused, dehumanized, forced to work with pesticides or under other hazardous conditions, sometimes literally enslaved. I also think about and try to remain mindful of the long term effects of overconsumption on our environment - something I've been guilty of. As my awareness has grown and changed, so have my values. More often than not these days, organic, fairly traded and ethically produced (or used) is the way we try to roll.

mike ~ There was a time during my 20's and early 30's when I *occasionally* used a form of passive aggressiveness, but I knocked it off a long time ago. Now when angry or frustrated I'm more likely to come right out with it (I've been called *ferocious*) or, to speak the truth gently and politely walk away. I do sometimes use sarcasm or irony, mostly with my Scorpio husband who appreciates my sense of humor.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Thanks for adding your personal experience here. :-)

I kind of envy those who are sure of their exact birth time (most Americans), because they can add astrological hous positions into the mix with confidence. I hardly ever think in "house terms" regarding my own chart because I'm unsure of my exact (within a few minutes) time of birth, in spite of having had an astrologer do a rectification for me. I believe I now have it pinned to within half an hour or so - but that can make a difference!

Your description above of the way you now make your choices really does reflect the most true and classic element of Libra - fairness and balance.

I have no planet in Libra, but it's quite likely that Mercury was in 7th house when I was born.
That, and Part of Fortune in Libra are my only direct links to The Scales.

Twilight said...

I had meant to mention in the post, but forgot to do so:

Fixed Stars. I wonder how much these "colour" the two signs over and above their Venus relationship - and colour astrologers' views?

Algol in Taurus; Spica and Arcturus in Libra (to name a few).

Anonymous said...

Curious what you think of the idea that Taurus is ruled by the Earth? Donna Cunningham at SkyWriter and auntiemoon have both hosted discussion on the topic, and it is quite interesting to consider.

LB (again) said...

Twilight ~ Having just read your first and second comments (left while I was busy composing my Libra resume - LOL!), I'd have to say both Taurus and Libra can be lazy, and both love the good things life has to offer - comfort, food, beauty, art and music.

As far as Libra's creativity goes, I forgot to mention how I sing, dance (at one time wanted to be a dancer), paint, draw, decorate and even write a little poetry. While I don't claim to have any *major* talents (I'm more of a dabbler), my artistic gifts have consistently drawn the attention and appreciation of others throughout my lifetime.

It's too bad you have no way of knowing your exact time of birth, Twilight. Do *you* think Cancer fits for your ascendant?

Twilight said...

Sabina ~ Hi there! Oh! Hmmm. I hadn't considered that. Without knowing how arguments in favour of that go, my initial feeling is that Taurus is already of Earth due to its astrological Element. I'm very keen on the elemental aspect of astrology, it never lets one down, I find, whereas other parts of the doctrine do, at times.

I'd be wary of Taurus losing the rulership of Venus. Art, in one sphere or another, does seem to be innate in so many with strong Taurus in their natal charts.

LB said...

Twilight ~ I think Fixed Stars have the potential to exert a significant influence. Not sure I always agree with traditional meanings assigned by ancient astrologers though.

I have Spica conjunct my North Node and Aldebaran and Antares *exactly* conjunct my MC and IC. In terms of Spica, I'm kind of an underachiever compared to some of my astrological twins - including Viggo Mortensen.

Twilight said...

LB ~ Ah - so glad to have it confirmed that the Venus artiness shines through in you too! Can't say it's a surprise.

Re my ascendant - I'm confident that Cancer was rising when I was born, yes. For years, though, I had myself down as Leo rising, via do-it-yourself calculation using a too late time. I had difficulty relating to it, consulted an aged aunt, my mother's sister, who was certain that I was born at least an hour or 90 minutes earlier than my father had estimated. Mum nearly died when I was born so she was in no state to record the time! Dad fainted, I was told. :-)

The rectification astrologer said he felt certain Cancer was rising, but couldn't be absolutely sure of the degree - so I suspect he placed it mid-sign. Now, relocated to OK, I have Aquarius rising....I can live with that.

♥ Sonny ♥ said...

I have to admit when I read all o your posts and comments , I am so very jealous of all you all understand about your charts..

I had a short reading done many years ago and forgot most of what was told to me except for the fact that I should work at home//cancer moon and that my cappie sun would kick my libra ascend in the arse and get me motivated and moving..
I do love the Nice things buts I am willing to work for them or make what I want from very little to get almost the same item my heart desired.
my Mom always called me, The Creative One and my sister was The Brains lol..

Twilight said...

LB ~ Re fixed stars. I agree that traditional meanings can be off-putting. I suppose they were devised for times as they were in centuries past, and with less opportunity for testing and checking.

I often think that astrologers in the past saw something happen to one person with a certain alignment or position in their natal chart and decided that a similar thing would apply to everybody, in some way. There's some truth in that but the way it's interpreted in 2013 has to be vastly different from the way it was seen centuries ago.

Twilight said...

Sonny ~ I think it's always useful to have an astrologer's reading, but nothing beats getting into it oneself, learning as much as one feels comfortable with and "doing it yourself" - just for yourself. Nobody knows you like you do. Astrologers can only put things into a general context, you can put them into your particular context.

So ...I'm pleased to see another Venus person - Libra rising has to reflect your clear draw to, and talent for, artistic design - on the home front especially (Cancer Moon). :-)