I guess Frank Loesser would be horrified if he knew the controversy his award winning song "Baby, It's Cold Outside" is causing on the internet these days.
Wikipedia:
I started to read a long thread of answers at Quora to "Why do people think the song “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” is offensive? In trying to understand both points of view, I couldn't tear myself away, spent far too much time on it! I found myself upvoting answers offering opposite points of view, and couldn't decide, afterwards, exactly how I feel about the song myself. I do see both sides of today's argument.
Whenever I've heard the song in the past, it didn't strike me as being in any way offensive, certainly not "rapey" as some see it, rather just playful in tone. I didn't even assume that the point of having the female stay, due to inclement weather, necessarily meant...sex. But then I'm old now. I was 5 years old when the song was written, I grew up in the atmosphere of the context of that song, when a gal had to be careful not to be labelled "common", "easy", or "slut". As an answer at Quora pointed out - the song is really as much about "slut-shaming" as anything else. The female is afraid of what relatives and others might think if she stayed with her boyfriend.
Things have changed so much now, it's hard to find a modern movie where there isn't at least one scene of naked bodies writhing together - in close-up. In movies, a chance meeting in a bar, over a drink, almost always results in...please re-read previous sentence. In past decades such goings on were not allowed in films - there was even a rule at some point, I think, where one of the parties involved in a scene of sexual activity on a bed had to keep one foot on the floor.
While I can appreciate the shade cast on Loesser's lyrics by some of the horrors of rape and sexual abuse uncovered in the past few years, I still find it difficult to find this song to be actually offensive - it is simply old fashioned - and old fashioned ain't all bad! There's a simple answer for any who do find the song offensive - don't listen! As another answer at Quora pointed out - It is just a song.
I'll not post a video of the controversial song today, but another by Frank Loesser. This song depicts a situations not a million miles from the same circumstance as in "Baby It's Cold Outside" - but now the two are married, and the song is in softer vein:
Two Sleepy People with Shirley Ross and Bob Hope -
Wikipedia:
Another version of the song, not mentioned above, but drawn to my attention by my husband, was by Homer and Jethro, a comic version with silly replacement lines such as : "I'll take your hair your hat looks swell"...."I'll hold your hands they're just like feet". TSK!Baby, It's Cold Outside" is a popular song written by Frank Loesser in 1944. It is a call and response duet in which a host, usually performed by a male voice, tries to convince a guest, usually performed by a female voice, that she should stay the evening because the weather is cold and the trip home would be difficult. While the lyrics make no mention of any holiday, it is popularly regarded as a Christmas song due to its winter theme.
Loesser wrote the song for his wife and himself to perform at parties. He sold the song to MGM, which used it for the 1949 film Neptune's Daughter. It was sung by Esther Williams and Ricardo Montalbán and won the Academy Award. Since 1949 it has been covered by many singers, including Ray Charles, Michael Bublé, Sir Tom Jones, and Dolly Parton.
I started to read a long thread of answers at Quora to "Why do people think the song “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” is offensive? In trying to understand both points of view, I couldn't tear myself away, spent far too much time on it! I found myself upvoting answers offering opposite points of view, and couldn't decide, afterwards, exactly how I feel about the song myself. I do see both sides of today's argument.
Whenever I've heard the song in the past, it didn't strike me as being in any way offensive, certainly not "rapey" as some see it, rather just playful in tone. I didn't even assume that the point of having the female stay, due to inclement weather, necessarily meant...sex. But then I'm old now. I was 5 years old when the song was written, I grew up in the atmosphere of the context of that song, when a gal had to be careful not to be labelled "common", "easy", or "slut". As an answer at Quora pointed out - the song is really as much about "slut-shaming" as anything else. The female is afraid of what relatives and others might think if she stayed with her boyfriend.
Things have changed so much now, it's hard to find a modern movie where there isn't at least one scene of naked bodies writhing together - in close-up. In movies, a chance meeting in a bar, over a drink, almost always results in...please re-read previous sentence. In past decades such goings on were not allowed in films - there was even a rule at some point, I think, where one of the parties involved in a scene of sexual activity on a bed had to keep one foot on the floor.
While I can appreciate the shade cast on Loesser's lyrics by some of the horrors of rape and sexual abuse uncovered in the past few years, I still find it difficult to find this song to be actually offensive - it is simply old fashioned - and old fashioned ain't all bad! There's a simple answer for any who do find the song offensive - don't listen! As another answer at Quora pointed out - It is just a song.
I'll not post a video of the controversial song today, but another by Frank Loesser. This song depicts a situations not a million miles from the same circumstance as in "Baby It's Cold Outside" - but now the two are married, and the song is in softer vein:
Two Sleepy People with Shirley Ross and Bob Hope -
I'm finding the whole thing rather hysterically funny, much like the "War on Christmas". No one engages in a real debate about the song but takes this belligerent stance.
ReplyDeleteSome I know wouldn't know the song if it stood up and bit them but like pushing around the memes with self-important righteousness.
Of course it's about slut-shaming and how a "good" girl would be disowned by her family by not obeying her "curfew". My father would go apoplectic in my theatre days after cast parties. I'm sure he imagined orgies but all he could talk about were the neighbours' opinions of his slut daughter.
So this song strikes close to home for me for the above reasons.
I am glad we have a different (mostly) world view now.
And for really creepy, stalkey, rapey songs try "I'll be watching you" by the Police.
XO
WWW
Wisewebwoman ~ I think some who frequent social media proper enjoy the experience of lining up on one side or t'other of some issue, any issue, and cyber-shouting loudly about it, whether their knowledge of it is tiny, vast or lacking entirely. One of our innate tribal instincts, I suppose.
ReplyDeleteDuring my own young years, I didn't have any boyfriends who would have had a home of their own to which to invite me to stay - didn't even know OF such a lad in fact. I do remember just one occasion when my Dad, taking our dog for a walk, happened across me and a then boy acquaintance - not even much of a "boyfriend" - walking along just chatting. Dad steered me by the arm and took me home with him and the dog. LOL! I didn't even like the young man in question! :)
Agree about Sting's "I'll be watching you" - that really is creepy!
I agree with WiseWebWoman (mind, I do on most things, she is, after all, very wise!) and frankly these little shits on social media, with nothing better to occupy their empty, fruitless, lives - and minds - than leap onto the next bandwagon that lumbers along, make me puke. There's not an ounce of romance in their sad, disconnected, souls. If there's one major mistake of the human species it was the invention of social media. Give the ignoramuses a voice and all they'll spout is ignorance.
ReplyDeleteTwilight, you mentioned a perfect example of a song that needed to be criticized: "I'll Be Watching You," or "Every Breath You Take." I used to play this with a fellow amateur musician (I was VERY amateur!) fairly regularly as it does have a testing guitar rhythm, but the words are quite vile. Unless, of course, you happen to be a guy named San Nguyen, who insists the song is all about the intrusion of surveillance into modern life???
There's really no accounting for the weird dysfunctions of the human mind. In case you want to read his somewhat fanciful interpretations, they're at this link:
https://medium.com/@sannguyen/rethinking-the-surveillance-through-every-breath-you-take-c80326fd5b58
RJ Adams ~ It seems to me that some people just want/need to be angry about something - anything. I suppose it makes them feel they have a voice - when really and truly they don't - WE don't, none of us does, not when it comes to big important stuff. We should all get really, really angry about so many things that are wrong and are important to everyone on this planet - but what do we hear....crickets (as they say). At least in France you have the Yellow Jacket people getting angry about something important, something else that harms the poor and benefits the wealthy.
ReplyDeleteLOL! Both WWW and I find the Sting song creepy, but, strangely enough the thought did cross my mind that it could also be seen/heard with an alternative meaning (as you've mentioned - but I don't see that as dysfunction of the mind). It happens in the case of many pop songs, some movies, some paintings , etc.