tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post6560929964064006534..comments2024-03-17T03:42:21.277-05:00Comments on LEARNING CURVE ON THE ECLIPTIC: LANGUAGE, PERCEPTION and MERCURY (& Ms Merkel's declaration).Twilighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14138621610593773784noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-2393513378941899762010-10-20T10:51:19.188-05:002010-10-20T10:51:19.188-05:00@ Wisewebwoman:
I would like to comment on your q...@ Wisewebwoman:<br /><br />I would like to comment on your question "what is the point of migrating" and learning the language of the host country.My observation comes from my involvement with the Brazilian community. But I believe this to be true for the Latino community in general and maybe some other nationalities. <br />I think the improvement on the means of transportation has changed the goal and type of migration. In the 19th century and until a couple of decades ago, migrating was a huge enterprise. It took months by boat or if you migrated by air, airfare was expensive. So pretty much it was a one time deal. Now it is very easy and cheap to buy an airplane ticket and go back home. Which in turn has made easy to go back to one's country of origin. Therefore, the focus of migration has changed. Instead of creating a new life in a different country because you did not have the means to go back and forth, it is now to come to the USA, make money, invest the money saved in the country of origin and go back. As a consequence of this "short" term perspective, the need for learning the host country's language is reduced to the essential of getting a job, housing, food and transportation. They work as much as possible, with little down time, save as much as possible and go back. The need to adapt is simply not present since, their goal is to stay for a short period of time. Adapting to the costumes of the new country and becoming fluent in English is often considered a waste of time, something that takes away from work time since most jobs they are hired for do not require a deep command of English.<br />The real problem of adaptation and language learning start when the immigrant realizes that he will not go back due to, more often than not, to getting married to an American and having kids in this country.Astrology Unboxedhttp://astrologyunboxed.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-2943793435301731462010-10-20T08:55:23.442-05:002010-10-20T08:55:23.442-05:00WWW ~~~ I doubt there's one rule to fit all in...WWW ~~~ I doubt there's one rule to fit all in the immigration/language issue. <br /><br />In the particular example of immigrants in Germany from Turkey, most of the original immigrants were invited in as guest workers after World War2, I understand, to help re-build the country.<br />Presumably the original immigrants and their offspring have by now been absorbed into the German way of life. If not, it could easily be the fault of the German people for not welcoming them and their descendants as "equals". I don't know details, and shouldn't judge - but it's a two-way street needing cooperation from both sides.<br /><br />I hope you're correct about coming generations being different with potential to change the world. If they aren't and they don't - <br />"Bye bye world!"Twilighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138621610593773784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-84533429904065209952010-10-19T20:26:45.416-05:002010-10-19T20:26:45.416-05:00I see you're hit by the spambot club too, T!
T...I see you're hit by the spambot club too, T!<br />They must be perfecting their wordcatchas or hiring new gremlins.<br />Difficult thing this whole approach to immigrants and it is far more of a challenge for older people to accomplish the transition to a new language.<br />I was always impressed with the way one Portuguese family did it. 4 generations and once they got off the boat speaking Portuguese was forbidden for a whole year. It worked.<br />I think one has to embrace the new life offered by the host country, otherwise what is the point of emigrating? One can't be part of the community at all and it encourages ghettoes.<br />Having said that, I am completely astonished at the ethnic diversity of the grandgirl's friends. This is the generation that has absolutely no perception of colour, religion or race and they will change the world.<br />XO<br />WWWWisewebwomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15281689872840844191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-49636543541157801972010-10-19T17:37:32.315-05:002010-10-19T17:37:32.315-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Lisa Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377913272026673775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-14099727889340440212010-10-19T14:58:40.192-05:002010-10-19T14:58:40.192-05:00Astrology Unboxed ~~~ Hi Fanienne:
Oh my! Yes, y...Astrology Unboxed ~~~ Hi Fanienne:<br /><br />Oh my! Yes, you have a very good grasp on the topic at hand. Your mental gymnastics must have been agile indeed to master 3 languages.<br /><br />My mental aptitude <b>is</b> towards language rather than mathematics, but never having lived in a non-English speaking environment for more than a few weeks, I haven't had the need or incentive to really become fluent beyond schoolday French and Latin (can't really be fluent in Latin, but I enjoyed the learning of it).<br /><br />It's a tricky problem for immigrants these days, moving to countries where a different language is spoken. My own leaning would be to learn as much as I could before I actually moved, but all immigrants do not have that opportunity until they actually reach their destination. So for a period they must speak in their mother tongue - then it'll become all too easy to avoid learning the new language....Maybe the written language is very different too - not sure about Turkish, but in the case of people from Pakistan and other mid-east countries their written language is so totally different from ours that they have a double hurdle to negotiate.<br /><br />I can see both sides of the problem.<br /><br />As you say, navigation between very different cultures is almost a bigger hurdle than the language - which at least is "a fixed target", whereas the culture....well....I have still a few hurdles to clear on that score myself.<br />;-)Twilighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138621610593773784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16659850.post-81446036768447687102010-10-19T11:22:36.689-05:002010-10-19T11:22:36.689-05:00Ah Accents! Something I know a little bit about. S...Ah Accents! Something I know a little bit about. Something that used to bother me a lot when I was younger and now makes for an interesting conversation opener for me. <br />People are always commenting on my accent, wondering where it comes from. They make wild guesses, but never guess it right. <br />When I tell them, the immediate response is "but you don't sound like it!"<br />And in fact I don't. I grew up in Brazil from a French mother and an American father who both wanted to preserve their cultural roots. Therefore, from a very young age, I had to speak 3 languages at the same time (French, English and Portuguese)and ended up creating my own accent.<br />It certainly made for some interesting mis and understandings growing up, as well as mental gymnastics. I believe it spurred my fascination with linguistics, nuances and the links between reality, perception of reality and language.<br />As for the German/Turkish debate, it seems to present itself as the opposite of what happened in the USA in the 19th century where immigrants were encouraged to assimilate as fast as they could. As a result, the second generation and sometimes even the first generation did not learn the native language of their parents. <br />The bigger question for immigrants and their kinds is how to learn to navigate between the two cultures and how this affect their perception of the world.Astrology Unboxedhttp://astrologyunboxed.com/noreply@blogger.com